Yes God loves everyone, no doubt.

S

Simpletruther

Well-known member
Matthew 5
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 [o]But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your [p]brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the [q]tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

The whole point of this is being like the Father in loving enemies (as exemplified in Him bringng sun and rain to his enemies).

I think many more passages support this truth as well.
 
Simpletruther said:
Matthew 5
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 [o]But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your [p]brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the [q]tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

The whole point of this is being like the Father in loving enemies (as exemplified in Him bringng sun and rain to his enemies).

I think many more passages support this truth as well.
Click to expand...
Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated. (Rom 9)
 
Howie said:
Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated. (Rom 9)
Click to expand...
Not about individual salvation but rather a choice of a peoples - Israel over Edom

Malachi 1:1-5 (KJV)
1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.

Jacob AND ESAU REPRESENT TWO NATIONS. ESAU NEVER PERSONALLY SERVED Jacob


Genesis 25:23 (KJV 1900)
23 And the LORD said unto her,
Two nations are in thy womb,
And two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels;
And the one people shall be stronger than the other people;
And the elder shall serve the younger.

Romans 9:12 (KJV 1900)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
 
fltom said:
Not about individual salvation but rather a choice of a peoples - Israel over Edom
Click to expand...

Sorry, but Romans 9 is about INDIVIDUALS, not "peoples":


Rom. 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children:

(an "individual")

but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

(an "individual")

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.

(an "individual")

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one,

(an "individual")

even by our father Isaac;

(an "individual")

11 (For the children being not yet born,

("individuals")

neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved,

(an "individual")

but Esau have I hated.

(an "individual")


Rom. 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses,

(an "individual")

I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh,

(an "individual")
 
fltom said:
Not about individual salvation but rather a choice of a peoples - Israel over Edom

Malachi 1:1-5 (KJV)
1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.

Jacob AND ESAU REPRESENT TWO NATIONS. ESAU NEVER PERSONALLY SERVED Jacob


Genesis 25:23 (KJV 1900)
23 And the LORD said unto her,
Two nations are in thy womb,
And two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels;
And the one people shall be stronger than the other people;
And the elder shall serve the younger.

Romans 9:12 (KJV 1900)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Click to expand...
I disagree. It is stating both National and personal / individual election.

13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? Far from it! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I have mercy, and I will show compassion to whomever I show compassion.” 16 So then, it does not depend on the person who wants it nor the one who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very reason I raised you up, in order to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed [o]throughout the earth.” 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires -- (Rom 9:13-17).
 
Howie said:
I disagree. It is stating both National and personal / individual election.

13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? Far from it! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I have mercy, and I will show compassion to whomever I show compassion.” 16 So then, it does not depend on the person who wants it nor the one who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very reason I raised you up, in order to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed [o]throughout the earth.” 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires -- (Rom 9:13-17).
Click to expand...
Sorry you provide no evidence for that and all Israel was not saved nor was all Edom lost

Not about individual salvation but rather a choice of a peoples - Israel over Edom

Malachi 1:1-5 (KJV)
1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.

Jacob AND ESAU REPRESENT TWO NATIONS. ESAU NEVER PERSONALLY SERVED Jacob

(But Edom served Israel under David"


Genesis 25:23 (KJV 1900)
23 And the LORD said unto her,
Two nations are in thy womb,
And two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels;
And the one people shall be stronger than the other people;
And the elder shall serve the younger.

Romans 9:12 (KJV 1900)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

and the reason Israel did not find what they sought

Romans 9:31-32 (KJV)
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

and

It was not because of unconditional election they were cut off but

Romans 11:20-23 (KJV)
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

because of their own unbelief

and they would be grafted back in if they abided not in unbelief


23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

No unconditional election to salvation here
 
Theo1689 said:
Sorry, but Romans 9 is about INDIVIDUALS, not "peoples":


Rom. 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children:
Click to expand...

Israel a nation
Theo1689 said:
(an "individual")

but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Click to expand...

through whom would come Jacob and Israel the nation
Theo1689 said:
(an "individual")

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Click to expand...

Children of the promise - a nation


Theo1689 said:
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.

(an "individual")

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one,

(an "individual")

even by our father Isaac;

(an "individual")

11 (For the children being not yet born,

("individuals")
Click to expand...

Who would bring forth two nations Israel and Edom

Genesis 25:23 (KJV 1900)
23 And the LORD said unto her,
Two nations are in thy womb,
And two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels;
And the one people shall be stronger than the other people;
And the elder shall serve the younger.

Israel and Edom
Theo1689 said:
neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved,

(an "individual")
Click to expand...

who represents a nation - Israel
Theo1689 said:
but Esau have I hated.

(an "individual")
Click to expand...

Who represent a nation - Edom

2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.

1000 years after Jacob and Esau this was written

Theo1689 said:
Rom. 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses,

(an "individual")

I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh,

(an "individual")
Click to expand...

Not a reference to Jacob-Israel and Esau - Edom

first you ignored the evidence

Not about individual salvation but rather a choice of a peoples - Israel over Edom

Malachi 1:1-5 (KJV)
1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.

Jacob AND ESAU REPRESENT TWO NATIONS. ESAU NEVER PERSONALLY SERVED Jacob

You never addressed that

(But Edom served Israel under David"


Genesis 25:23 (KJV 1900)
23 And the LORD said unto her,
Two nations are in thy womb,
And two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels;
And the one people shall be stronger than the other people;
And the elder shall serve the younger.

Romans 9:12 (KJV 1900)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

then you ignored the fact Israel which was elect did not find what they sought because

Romans 9:30-32 (KJV)
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

not because of unconditional election


and cuttoff because

Romans 11:20-23 (KJV)
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

This was not unconditional election and they could be graffed back in if


23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

There is not a hint of unconditional election to salvation anywhere in the passage
 
Last edited:
LOL.

You provided no evidence supporting your assertion that I provided no evidence in the post in which I presented evidence ... ?
 
Howie said:
LOL.

You provided no evidence supporting your assertion that I provided no evidence in the post in which I presented evidence ... ?
Click to expand...
You can tell yourself that fairytale if it makes you feel better

but if you want reality

  - Yes God loves everyone, no doubt.

Matthew 5 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 [o]But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your...
forums.carm.org
 
Chalcedon said:
You think one out of context scripture you quote nullified the rest of the Bible
Click to expand...
Indeed

one out of context verse does not teach unconditional election to salvation

and is contrary to the context

Romans 9:30-32 (KJV)
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Romans 11:20-23 (KJV)
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
 
Simpletruther said:
Matthew 5
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 [o]But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your [p]brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the [q]tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

The whole point of this is being like the Father in loving enemies (as exemplified in Him bringng sun and rain to his enemies).

I think many more passages support this truth as well.
Click to expand...
Another good one to demonstrate God's love:

John 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

He goes on to say the world hates darkness more than light, clearly the context is the sinfull world in view.
 
Simpletruther said:
Another good one to demonstrate God's love:

John 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

He goes on to say the world hates darkness more than light, clearly the context is the sinfull world in view.
Click to expand...
Yes and without previous bias it is easy to see by loving our enemies we show we are the children of God

BTW Jesus regarding those who crucified him

Luke 23:34 (KJV)
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
 
fltom said:
Yes and without previous bias it is easy to see by loving our enemies we show we are the children of God

BTW Jesus regarding those who crucified him

Luke 23:34 (KJV)
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Click to expand...
Simpletruther said:
Matthew 5
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 [o]But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your [p]brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the [q]tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

The whole point of this is being like the Father in loving enemies (as exemplified in Him bringng sun and rain to his enemies).

I think many more passages support this truth as well.
Click to expand...
Another good one:

Psalm 145:8
The Lord is gracious and compassionate,
slow to anger and rich in love.
9 The Lord is good to all;
he has compassion on all he has made.


Hard to deny the plain meaning here.
 
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