yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

Carbon

Well-known member
Yes I was one for 20 years. I know what I use to think and how I was wired back then like it was yesterday and it was over 40 years ago .
Sorry brother, I have to disagree with you.
According to this definition anyway. (in Calvinism) a sinner who is not of the elect and is predestined to damnation.
🤪
 

civic

Well-known member
Sorry brother, I have to disagree with you.
According to this definition anyway. (in Calvinism) a sinner who is not of the elect and is predestined to damnation.
But you would agree we were all children of wrath prior to conversion correct ?
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Ok then as children of wrath Gods , His wrath would abide on you prior to salvation correct ?

Now read Roman 1 in light of Gods wrath and having a reprobate mind.
I agree with you. But since your a believer, you were never a reprobate.

living as children of wrath, yes.
God also never gave you, or I, a reprobate mind.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Ok then as children of wrath Gods , His wrath would abide on you prior to salvation correct ?

Now read Roman 1 in light of Gods wrath and having a reprobate mind.
I think Carbon means that if you believe you were Reprobate, that's the same as believing Goats can become Sheep...

And God giving us over to a Reprobate Mind is like saying that Sheep can become Goats...
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Care to explain?

What type of influence does foreknowledge have over predestination?
You're putting the cart before the horse.
It’s true God’s knowledge can never be deceived , His knowledge is perfect but in which way does His foreknowledge influence ours or any actions?
Paul is presenting a logically consistent and coherent argument. If God's foreknowledge is not predestined, then God cannot foreknow what will happen.
Again, the greater point here is that Paul is not denying free will, but simply pointing out that free will is not relevant or a factor in one's salvation for the simple fact that the carnal man is incapable of making the correct choice to begin with. The carnal man doesn't have it as an option.
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
I see how it could work. In the OT, saints were not born again like the NT. Christ had to die before He could bring that experience to a union with a believer. Without that experience, the Holy Spirit did not unite believers to Christ. So as I see it, regeneration now could be like the Holy Spirit’s work in the OT, in dwelling us to change our hearts to believe, but withholding Christ until we believe. I see how it might work, but that’s as far as it goes. But keep in mind that I’ve been studying this (as well as trying to write a book about applying Adamic Realism to soteriology) since ‘99; so I’m not likely to be easily moved.
That is utterly ridiculous.......

Everyone is born again the same way. The NT has a little more details.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
I see how it could work. In the OT, saints were not born again like the NT. Christ had to die before He could bring that experience to a union with a believer. Without that experience, the Holy Spirit did not unite believers to Christ. So as I see it, regeneration now could be like the Holy Spirit’s work in the OT, in dwelling us to change our hearts to believe, but withholding Christ until we believe. I see how it might work, but that’s as far as it goes. But keep in mind that I’ve been studying this (as well as trying to write a book about applying Adamic Realism to soteriology) since ‘99; so I’m not likely to be easily moved.
One is not indwelt until they believe

John 7:38-39 (KJV)
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Galatians 3:2 (KJV)
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:14 (KJV)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
I dunno, I don’t think I know what it feels like to be a reprobate.
The question isn't asking you what it feels like to be a reprobate. The question is asking you about a revelation from God that allows you to 'know' (not to be confused with your feelings) your eternal reward ahead of time.
 

Ken Hamrick

Active member
One is not indwelt until they believe

John 7:38-39 (KJV)
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Galatians 3:2 (KJV)
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:14 (KJV)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Hmmm... I knew there must be a reason I hadn't adopted it yet.
 
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