YHWH as the Devastator, Isaiah 13:5-16?

docphin5

Active member
In the subject verses YHWH is attributed with cruelty, evil, devastation, and wrath in his plan "to destroy the earth" (see below). He is also the cause of stabbing "everyone", dashing infants to pieces, plundering houses, and raping wives.

If this is an accurate description of YHWH, then how does a Christian defend it to an a-theist?
Do you say
1) YHWH can do whatever he wants to include plan the rape of women, and killing babies?
2) they deserved what they got for being sinners, although YHWH explicitly plans "to destroy the earth" and "desolate" the earth, which implies everyone on the earth?
3) it is a mystery, one that will be answered someday (meaning never)?

As someone who believes that there is a logical explanation to this, I would ask why couldn't this description be the work of the Adversary of Men whom Paul calls the "God of this world" (2 Corinthians 4:4)?

"In their case the God of this world (cosmos) has blinded the minds of the unbelievers..."

If so, it still allows for TWO other good Gods, namely, Jesus, and the God of Jesus, for Paul subjoins the clause with the following,

"...to keep them [unbelievers] from seeing the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

Is it possible that Christian orthodoxy has confounded YHWH, "the God of this world", with the God of Jesus, putting orthodoxy in the position of justifying genocide and rape, or ignoring it, when actually YHWH is the Adversary and Destroyer of humans on earth. If the "Gods" were put in their proper places, then there would be no difficulty in proposing a Good God who sent his Son to save mankind from the bad God, namely, YHWH, who plans to kill everyone. It really makes way too much sense.

In anticipation of someone saying that YHWH becomes salvation to some people. I would ask, is it possible that Isaiah perceives that YHWH condemns the world (or flesh) because it is imperfect but also that "YHWH becomes salvation" when the inner spirit (Ruach Elohim) or virtues is allowed to rule the world (or flesh). This inner spirit Isaiah calls Yesuati (English: Jesus), literally "YHWH saves". And he saves the world for his God, namely, El. IOW, the world is going from bad to good, old to new, because the Good God is saving it through his Son(s) who choose the Good. The inner man made in the image of Ruach Elohim (Jesus) is saving the outer fleshy man formed and condemned by YHWH Elohim.

(Isaiah 12:2)
Indeed EL (God), Jesus (yesuati*) I will trust and not be afraid for my strength and song. Jah Jehovah, has become my salvation (lisuah).

--------
Isaiah 13:5 (Great Isaiah Scroll)--YHWH destroys the world
(5) They are coming from far lands and from the end of the heavens YHWH with His equipment of indignation to destroy the earth.
(6) Howl because near is the day of YHWH It shall come as devastation from the Devastator.
(7) Therefore all hands shall faint and every heart of man shall melt.
(8) And they shall be afraid, troubles and woes shall seize them, they shall writhe as one bearing a child, they shall be amazed at one another, their faces shall be faces of flames.
(9) Behold the day of YHWH is coming, cruel and wrath and fierce anger, to appoint the earth a desolation and He will destroy sinners from it.
(10) Because the stars and their constellations shall not light their light. The sun shall be dark in its going out and the moon will not shine [...its light...].
(11) And I will visit evil upon the world-system and iniquity upon the wicked and I will stop the arrogantly proud and I will humble the high mindedness of the ruthless.
(12) and I will cause to be more prized a man than fine gold, even a human than the pure gold of Ophir.
(13) Therefore I will shake the heavens and the earth shall tremble out of its place by the wrath of YHWH of Hosts and in the day of his fierce anger.
(14) And it shall be as a banished gazelle and as a sheep with no one shepherding them and each man shall turn to his own people and each man shall flee to his own land.
(15) Everyone found shall be stabbed and the ones gathered shall fall by the sword.
(16) Their infants shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes. Their houses plundered and their wives raped. (PP)
 
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5wize

Well-known member
In the subject verses YHWH is attributed with cruelty, evil, devastation, and wrath in his plan "to destroy the earth" (see below). He is also the cause of stabbing "everyone", dashing infants to pieces, plundering houses, and raping wives.

If this is an accurate description of YHWH, then how does a Christian defend it to an a-theist?
Do you say
1) YHWH can do whatever he wants to include plan the rape of women, and killing babies?
2) they deserved what they got for being sinners, although YHWH explicitly plans "to destroy the earth" and "desolate" the earth, which implies everyone on the earth?
3) it is a mystery, one that will be answered someday (meaning never)?

As someone who believes that there is a logical explanation to this, I would ask why couldn't this description be the work of the Adversary of Men whom Paul calls the "God of this world" (2 Corinthians 4:4)?

"In their case the God of this world (cosmos) has blinded the minds of the unbelievers..."

If so, it still allows for TWO other good Gods, namely, Jesus, and the God of Jesus, for Paul subjoins the clause with the following,

"...to keep them [unbelievers] from seeing the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

Is it possible that Christian orthodoxy has confounded YHWH, "the God of this world", with the God of Jesus, putting orthodoxy in the position of justifying genocide and rape, or ignoring it, when actually YHWH is the Adversary and Destroyer of humans on earth. If the "Gods" were put in their proper places, then there would be no difficulty in proposing a Good God who sent his Son to save mankind from the bad God, namely, YHWH, who plans to kill everyone. It really makes way too much sense.

In anticipation of someone saying that YHWH becomes salvation to some people. I would ask, is it possible that Isaiah perceives that YHWH condemns the world (or flesh) because it is imperfect but also that "YHWH becomes salvation" when the inner spirit (Ruach Elohim) or virtues is allowed to rule the world (or flesh). This inner spirit Isaiah calls Yesuati (English: Jesus), literally "YHWH saves". And he saves the world for his God, namely, El. IOW, the world is going from bad to good, old to new, because the Good God is saving it through his Son(s) who choose the Good. The inner man made in the image of Ruach Elohim (Jesus) is saving the outer fleshy man formed and condemned by YHWH Elohim.

(Isaiah 12:2)
Indeed EL (God), Jesus (yesuati*) I will trust and not be afraid for my strength and song. Jah Jehovah, has become my salvation (lisuah).

--------
Isaiah 13:5 (Great Isaiah Scroll)--YHWH destroys the world
(5) They are coming from far lands and from the end of the heavens YHWH with His equipment of indignation to destroy the earth.
(6) Howl because near is the day of YHWH It shall come as devastation from the Devastator.
(7) Therefore all hands shall faint and every heart of man shall melt.
(8) And they shall be afraid, troubles and woes shall seize them, they shall writhe as one bearing a child, they shall be amazed at one another, their faces shall be faces of flames.
(9) Behold the day of YHWH is coming, cruel and wrath and fierce anger, to appoint the earth a desolation and He will destroy sinners from it.
(10) Because the stars and their constellations shall not light their light. The sun shall be dark in its going out and the moon will not shine [...its light...].
(11) And I will visit evil upon the world-system and iniquity upon the wicked and I will stop the arrogantly proud and I will humble the high mindedness of the ruthless.
(12) and I will cause to be more prized a man than fine gold, even a human than the pure gold of Ophir.
(13) Therefore I will shake the heavens and the earth shall tremble out of its place by the wrath of YHWH of Hosts and in the day of his fierce anger.
(14) And it shall be as a banished gazelle and as a sheep with no one shepherding them and each man shall turn to his own people and each man shall flee to his own land.
(15) Everyone found shall be stabbed and the ones gathered shall fall by the sword.
(16) Their infants shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes. Their houses plundered and their wives raped. (PP)
What happened between 9 and 11? It went from 3rd person to 1st.
 

J regia

Well-known member
In the subject verses YHWH is attributed with cruelty, evil, devastation, and wrath in his plan "to destroy the earth" (see below). He is also the cause of stabbing "everyone", dashing infants to pieces, plundering houses, and raping wives.

If this is an accurate description of YHWH, then how does a Christian defend it to an a-theist?
Do you say
1) YHWH can do whatever he wants to include plan the rape of women, and killing babies?
2) they deserved what they got for being sinners, although YHWH explicitly plans "to destroy the earth" and "desolate" the earth, which implies everyone on the earth?
3) it is a mystery, one that will be answered someday (meaning never)?

As someone who believes that there is a logical explanation to this, I would ask why couldn't this description be the work of the Adversary of Men whom Paul calls the "God of this world" (2 Corinthians 4:4)?

"In their case the God of this world (cosmos) has blinded the minds of the unbelievers..."

If so, it still allows for TWO other good Gods, namely, Jesus, and the God of Jesus, for Paul subjoins the clause with the following,

"...to keep them [unbelievers] from seeing the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

Is it possible that Christian orthodoxy has confounded YHWH, "the God of this world", with the God of Jesus, putting orthodoxy in the position of justifying genocide and rape, or ignoring it, when actually YHWH is the Adversary and Destroyer of humans on earth. If the "Gods" were put in their proper places, then there would be no difficulty in proposing a Good God who sent his Son to save mankind from the bad God, namely, YHWH, who plans to kill everyone. It really makes way too much sense.

In anticipation of someone saying that YHWH becomes salvation to some people. I would ask, is it possible that Isaiah perceives that YHWH condemns the world (or flesh) because it is imperfect but also that "YHWH becomes salvation" when the inner spirit (Ruach Elohim) or virtues is allowed to rule the world (or flesh). This inner spirit Isaiah calls Yesuati (English: Jesus), literally "YHWH saves". And he saves the world for his God, namely, El. IOW, the world is going from bad to good, old to new, because the Good God is saving it through his Son(s) who choose the Good. The inner man made in the image of Ruach Elohim (Jesus) is saving the outer fleshy man formed and condemned by YHWH Elohim.

(Isaiah 12:2)
Indeed EL (God), Jesus (yesuati*) I will trust and not be afraid for my strength and song. Jah Jehovah, has become my salvation (lisuah).

--------
Isaiah 13:5 (Great Isaiah Scroll)--YHWH destroys the world
(5) They are coming from far lands and from the end of the heavens YHWH with His equipment of indignation to destroy the earth.
(6) Howl because near is the day of YHWH It shall come as devastation from the Devastator.
(7) Therefore all hands shall faint and every heart of man shall melt.
(8) And they shall be afraid, troubles and woes shall seize them, they shall writhe as one bearing a child, they shall be amazed at one another, their faces shall be faces of flames.
(9) Behold the day of YHWH is coming, cruel and wrath and fierce anger, to appoint the earth a desolation and He will destroy sinners from it.
(10) Because the stars and their constellations shall not light their light. The sun shall be dark in its going out and the moon will not shine [...its light...].
(11) And I will visit evil upon the world-system and iniquity upon the wicked and I will stop the arrogantly proud and I will humble the high mindedness of the ruthless.
(12) and I will cause to be more prized a man than fine gold, even a human than the pure gold of Ophir.
(13) Therefore I will shake the heavens and the earth shall tremble out of its place by the wrath of YHWH of Hosts and in the day of his fierce anger.
(14) And it shall be as a banished gazelle and as a sheep with no one shepherding them and each man shall turn to his own people and each man shall flee to his own land.
(15) Everyone found shall be stabbed and the ones gathered shall fall by the sword.
(16) Their infants shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes. Their houses plundered and their wives raped. (PP)
Sounds like the summary of a script for a horror movie.
 

The Pixie

Active member
In the subject verses YHWH is attributed with cruelty, evil, devastation, and wrath in his plan "to destroy the earth" (see below). He is also the cause of stabbing "everyone", dashing infants to pieces, plundering houses, and raping wives.

If this is an accurate description of YHWH, then how does a Christian defend it to an a-theist?
...
i am not a Christian, but I think a better translation for "the earth" would be "the nation". Verse 1 is "The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.", so the context is a prophecy of doom against Babylon.

This is what the Hebrews hoped would happen, the usual wishful thinking that religion offers. Sure the people are in captivity, the temple destroyed, Jerusalem levelled, but that is no reason to lose faith in God! Just wait, any time now things will get better!
 

docphin5

Active member
i am not a Christian, but I think a better translation for "the earth" would be "the nation". Verse 1 is "The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.", so the context is a prophecy of doom against Babylon.

This is what the Hebrews hoped would happen, the usual wishful thinking that religion offers. Sure the people are in captivity, the temple destroyed, Jerusalem levelled, but that is no reason to lose faith in God! Just wait, any time now things will get better!
But when Isaiah expresses his "taunt against the king of Babylon" (Isaiah 14;4), he writes the following which is considered by Christianity to be a reference to the Adversary of Men, the fallen Cherubim, who rebelled against God. Clearly, Babylon and the "king of Babylon" are types for something else in Isaiah's mind.

There is a message here for those "who see" (perceive) the "fallen king of Babylon". The point being that there is more to scripture than its literal, supposedly historical rendering. It is connecting events in heaven with events on earth on a metaphysical level which the Hebrew prophets, gnostic Christians and Greek philosophers were keenly interested in.

(Isaiah 14:12) "How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!

How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!

(13) You said in your heart,
I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;

(14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’

(15) But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.


(16) Those who see you will stare at you
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,

(17) who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’
 

docphin5

Active member
What happened between 9 and 11? It went from 3rd person to 1st.
Isaiah switches effortlessly between first and third person as if he makes some sort of connection between himself and YHWH Elohim and Ruach Elohim. It is not much different than Paul proclaiming, "It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me." I would theorize that Isaiah like Paul perceived a correlation between the outer man (flesh or matter) to YHWH Elohim and the inner man (virtues) to the Ruach Elohim, thus, Isaiah in a metaphysical way IS both on earth when he speaks and teaches, just as Paul did.

Here is another example of it from the Great Isaiah Scroll and the translator's comment.

(Isaiah 48:16) Draw near to me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there: and now the Lord YHWH, and his Spirit, has sent me [Isaiah].

Translator's comments:
"Verse 16: (whenever the beginning was) "I was there": makes the messianic reference plain. He is speaking yet YHWH is directing him. Who is HE? He is being sent by and is YHWH at the same time.

Compare this to Zech 2:8 where it says" For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye. KJV. In the same way as Isa 48:16 it says YHWH "sent me" after Glory, which is a "Shekina" reference.. See also Zechariah 2:11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee. "You shall know that YHWH has sent me" Who is me? YHWH is coming to dwell but he "sent me." I, me, my, and YHWH are all the same person in this passage. This is another one of the passages where YHWH and the Messiah and therefore the finite and the infinite are combined.

Compare this to Zechariah 12:10: And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. It is YHWH who pours the spirit of grace and they look upon ME and mourn for HIM. These verses that mention YHWH and the Messiah in the same verse often have a metaphysical confusion in them which should accompany verses where activity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is mentioned in the same verse in human terms. In eternity I am sure that "I will pour and they shall look on me and mourn for him" makes sense. As also will the verses in Isaiah here where the ONE who spoke openly from the point of the creation, and was already there at that point, is now sent by YHWH and His Spirit. What an incredible verse. If you are earth bound don't try to understand it." (<
https://ao.net/~fmoeller/isa48.htm#shelak>, Jan. 10, 2021)
 
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The Pixie

Active member
But when Isaiah expresses his "taunt against the king of Babylon" (Isaiah 14;4), he writes the following which is considered by Christianity to be a reference to the Adversary of Men, the fallen Cherubim, who rebelled against God. Clearly, Babylon and the "king of Babylon" are types for something else in Isaiah's mind.

There is a message here for those "who see" (perceive) the "fallen king of Babylon". The point being that there is more to scripture than its literal, supposedly historical rendering. It is connecting events in heaven with events on earth on a metaphysical level which the Hebrew prophets, gnostic Christians and Greek philosophers were keenly interested in.
I fully appreciate Christians say Isaiah 14 is about Satan, but that does not make it so. It is a "taunt against the king of Babylon" because it is directed at the King of Babylon. In Isaiah's time, the satan was understood to be an angel working under the authority of God.
 

The Pixie

Active member
What happened between 9 and 11? It went from 3rd person to 1st.
I would suggest Isaiah is seeing all this in a vision; when it is third person he is seeing what is happening, when it is first person he is quoting God saying what will happen.
 

5wize

Well-known member
I would suggest Isaiah is seeing all this in a vision; when it is third person he is seeing what is happening, when it is first person he is quoting God saying what will happen.
I guess he really gets caught up in it then.
 

docphin5

Active member
I fully appreciate Christians say Isaiah 14 is about Satan, but that does not make it so. It is a "taunt against the king of Babylon" because it is directed at the King of Babylon.
But then why say all the rest about King of Babylon who descends into hell where men recognize him as the one who desolates the earth.
In Isaiah's time, the satan was understood to be an angel working under the authority of God.
In some places, for example, the book of Job, the Adversary works directly for YHWH. In other places (see below) they are equivalent which at the very least suggests an association in some of the Hebrew minds who wrote scripture. I would theorize that it represents an association between the power or principle behind matter (i.e. "God of this world") and the passions, impulses, arising from flesh, --flesh being a subset of the cosmic "body" of matter.

Again the anger of the YHWH was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.” (2 Samuel 24:1)

Then Satan stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.
(1 Chronicles 21:1)
 
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docphin5

Active member
I would suggest Isaiah is seeing all this in a vision; when it is third person he is seeing what is happening, when it is first person he is quoting God saying what will happen.
What if Isaiah is writing rationally about what he knows? Then we should be able to understand it and presumably know what he knows using our reason. Maybe he wants us to know what he knows which is why he wrote it in the first place.

But if you are right, that Isaiah knows nothing, but merely serves as a puppet to mouth the words of someone else, then we are hopelessly at the mercy of the priests, pastors, and popes who say that we cannot know it until we too become a puppet to merely mouth the words of someone else. Who wants to shutdown one's mind in order to let someone else tell us what is? Not me. I would hope not you. If the priests, pastors, and popes had their way we would still think humans spontaneously arose out of mud.
 

The Pixie

Active member
But then why say all the rest about King of Babylon who descends into hell where men recognize him as the one who desolates the earth.
If you are referring to verse 9, that is saying God will desolate the nation of Babylon.

In some places, for example, the book of Job, the Adversary works directly for YHWH. In other places (see below) they are equivalent which at the very least suggests an association in some of the Hebrew minds who wrote scripture. I would theorize that it represents an association between the power or principle behind matter (i.e. "God of this world") and the passions, impulses, arising from flesh, --flesh being a subset of the cosmic "body" of matter.

Again the anger of the YHWH was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.” (2 Samuel 24:1)

Then Satan stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.
(1 Chronicles 21:1)
The angel appointed by God was the guy who told the Hebrews to do a census.

It has got confused because it seems God gets angry for them doing a census, but they regularly had a census; Exodus 38, Numbers 26, 2 Chronicles 2, Ezra 2 are other examples. Further, the verse from 2 Samuel is clear that it is God who wants the census.

I would guess what annoyed God was that two tribes were excluded, but I admit it is not clear.

...
But if you are right, that Isaiah knows nothing, but merely serves as a puppet to mouth the words of someone else, then we are hopelessly at the mercy of the priests, pastors, and popes who say that we cannot know it until we too become a puppet to merely mouth the words of someone else. Who wants to shutdown one's mind in order to let someone else tell us what is? Not me. I would hope not you. If the priests, pastors, and popes had their way we would still think humans spontaneously arose out of mud.
As a prophet, Isaiah would be a puppet to mouth the words of God. I am not sure how that relates to what you say.
 

docphin5

Active member
As a prophet, Isaiah would be a puppet to mouth the words of God. I am not sure how that relates to what you say.
I dont think he was a puppet mouthing someone elses words. I presume that he was an author delivering a message from the rational soul within himself Inspired by a love for truth, justice, and love.

What I was trying to say is that IF what Isaiah knew cannot be known by reason, because he was only mouthing what God gave him to say (like a puppet), then that only plays into the hands of the priestly class who control the narrative, because it implies no one can know what Isaiah knew (or the apostles) unless one becomes a puppet himself. You aren’t going to do that, neither am I, which conveniently excludes us knowing the divine plan, —if that were true. The priestly class wants us to think that to preclude us from contributing anything to the dialogue.
 
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Harry Leggs

Active member
In the subject verses YHWH is attributed with cruelty, evil, devastation, and wrath in his plan "to destroy the earth" (see below). He is also the cause of stabbing "everyone", dashing infants to pieces, plundering houses, and raping wives.

If this is an accurate description of YHWH, then how does a Christian defend it to an a-theist?
Do you say
1) YHWH can do whatever he wants to include plan the rape of women, and killing babies?
2) they deserved what they got for being sinners, although YHWH explicitly plans "to destroy the earth" and "desolate" the earth, which implies everyone on the earth?
3) it is a mystery, one that will be answered someday (meaning never)?

As someone who believes that there is a logical explanation to this, I would ask why couldn't this description be the work of the Adversary of Men whom Paul calls the "God of this world" (2 Corinthians 4:4)?

"In their case the God of this world (cosmos) has blinded the minds of the unbelievers..."

If so, it still allows for TWO other good Gods, namely, Jesus, and the God of Jesus, for Paul subjoins the clause with the following,

"...to keep them [unbelievers] from seeing the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

Is it possible that Christian orthodoxy has confounded YHWH, "the God of this world", with the God of Jesus, putting orthodoxy in the position of justifying genocide and rape, or ignoring it, when actually YHWH is the Adversary and Destroyer of humans on earth. If the "Gods" were put in their proper places, then there would be no difficulty in proposing a Good God who sent his Son to save mankind from the bad God, namely, YHWH, who plans to kill everyone. It really makes way too much sense.

In anticipation of someone saying that YHWH becomes salvation to some people. I would ask, is it possible that Isaiah perceives that YHWH condemns the world (or flesh) because it is imperfect but also that "YHWH becomes salvation" when the inner spirit (Ruach Elohim) or virtues is allowed to rule the world (or flesh). This inner spirit Isaiah calls Yesuati (English: Jesus), literally "YHWH saves". And he saves the world for his God, namely, El. IOW, the world is going from bad to good, old to new, because the Good God is saving it through his Son(s) who choose the Good. The inner man made in the image of Ruach Elohim (Jesus) is saving the outer fleshy man formed and condemned by YHWH Elohim.

(Isaiah 12:2)
Indeed EL (God), Jesus (yesuati*) I will trust and not be afraid for my strength and song. Jah Jehovah, has become my salvation (lisuah).

--------
Isaiah 13:5 (Great Isaiah Scroll)--YHWH destroys the world
(5) They are coming from far lands and from the end of the heavens YHWH with His equipment of indignation to destroy the earth.
(6) Howl because near is the day of YHWH It shall come as devastation from the Devastator.
(7) Therefore all hands shall faint and every heart of man shall melt.
(8) And they shall be afraid, troubles and woes shall seize them, they shall writhe as one bearing a child, they shall be amazed at one another, their faces shall be faces of flames.
(9) Behold the day of YHWH is coming, cruel and wrath and fierce anger, to appoint the earth a desolation and He will destroy sinners from it.
(10) Because the stars and their constellations shall not light their light. The sun shall be dark in its going out and the moon will not shine [...its light...].
(11) And I will visit evil upon the world-system and iniquity upon the wicked and I will stop the arrogantly proud and I will humble the high mindedness of the ruthless.
(12) and I will cause to be more prized a man than fine gold, even a human than the pure gold of Ophir.
(13) Therefore I will shake the heavens and the earth shall tremble out of its place by the wrath of YHWH of Hosts and in the day of his fierce anger.
(14) And it shall be as a banished gazelle and as a sheep with no one shepherding them and each man shall turn to his own people and each man shall flee to his own land.
(15) Everyone found shall be stabbed and the ones gathered shall fall by the sword.
(16) Their infants shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes. Their houses plundered and their wives raped. (PP)
The Isaiah expert? At least reference your source. Is it evil bible? Are these irrational appeals to outrage? Why aren't you requesting answers from Jews or Muslims? More poo :poop:
 

docphin5

Active member
The angel appointed by God was the guy who told the Hebrews to do a census.
where does it say in the text, “the angel appointed by YHWH”? Is it possible you have added words to make it fit how you think it should have been said? Translators do that all too often when translating scripture. Then Bible commentaries expand on the translator bias to conform the meaning towards orthodoxy. Then the priestly class teaches the error as fact.
 

docphin5

Active member

docphin5

Active member
You are an illiterate and are referencing sources and refuse to cite your source.
the link is at the bottom of post #6. It is also in your Bible. My interest in the Great Isaiah scroll is due to its age. it is the oldest complete copy of Isaiah’s book.
What are you referencing?

They are not going to come on here all that much because folks like you are toxic.
 
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Harry Leggs

Active member
the link is at the bottom of post #6.
You are an illiterate and toxic with irrational appeals to outrage. Do not provide the background or reason for the Isaiah verses. There is nothing new here. It is a variation of the same ole same ole. Like including rape with God designed to incite. All these are appealing to low infos.
It is also in your Bible. My interest in the Great Isaiah scroll is due to its age. it is the oldest complete copy of Isaiah’s book.
Who cares about that here?
 
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J regia

Well-known member
You are an illiterate and toxic with irrational appeals to outrage. Do not provide the background or reason for the Isaiah verses. There is nothing new here. It is a variation of the same ole same ole. Like including rape with God designed to incite. All these are appealing to low infos.

Who cares about that here?
Was it outrageous too when Moses' family were commanded to commit genocide and butcher all the pregnant women and children (Deut 7:1-2) and consume them (Deut 7:16)?
 
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