YHWH / Jesus Created Alone By Himself.

[Nathan P]

Correct it is “us”.
Who is “us”?

The only other one who is involved in creation that is mentioned is the Word

 

[Towerwatchman]

That leaves only one possible entity left and that is the Father.

How can you be the father if in Hebrews 1:8-10 the father credits, the Son who is Jesus as the creator of all?

 

[Towerwatchman]

The only other one who is involved in creation that is mentioned is the Word

Please be more specific who is the word?

 

[Nathan P]

Please be more specific who is the word?

The one who was with God in the beginning.

 

[Nathan P]

How can you be the father if in Hebrews 1:8-10 the father credits, the Son who is Jesus as the creator of all?

When it says the heavens are the works of your hand it is not saying the heavens are the creation of your hand. Creation was done through the Word by God.

 

[Towerwatchman]

When it says the heavens are the works of your hand it is not saying the heavens are the creation of your hand. Creation was done through the Word by God.

The author of Hebrews is quoting psalms, 102- 25-27 where the psalmist states that God is the creator of all. And now the author of Hebrews makes it specific by stating that the father credits the Son as creator of all.

 

[Towerwatchman]

The one who was with God in the beginning.

That would be Jesus, who according to John was with God when the beginning commenced.

 

[Runningman]

The one who was with God in the beginning.

Read Genesis 1. It’s a parallel to John 1 where God created things using spoken words.

The word logos in John 1 is translated into English as “word” but it’s actually more than that.

Logos means it’s Gods thoughts and plans spoken. Logos could be possibly understood as the Holy Spirit in a sense; that is the breath or wind as if produced when words are spoken, but the Holy Spirit isn’t Jesus. The Holy Spirit is simply God’s Spirit.

Genesis 1 shows the Spirit of God was over the water in the beginning then God spoke words to create. John 1:14 is just a way of saying Jesus was created by the One True God, the Father.

 

[Nathan P]

Read Genesis 1. It’s a parallel to John 1 where God created things using spoken words.

The word logos in John 1 is translated into English as “word” but it’s actually more than that.

Logos means it’s Gods thoughts and plans spoken. Logos could be possibly understood as the Holy Spirit in a sense; that is the breath or wind as if produced when words are spoken, but the Holy Spirit isn’t Jesus. The Holy Spirit is simply God’s Spirit.

Genesis 1 shows the Spirit of God was over the water in the beginning then God spoke words to create. John 1:14 is just a way of saying Jesus was created by the One True God, the Father.

Exactly because Jesus did not exist until the Word became flesh.

 

[Nathan P]

How can you be the father if in Hebrews 1:8-10 the father credits, the Son who is Jesus as the creator of all?

No Hebrews does not credit Jesus as the creator of all. It says by whom (the Word) he (the Father) made all things.

 

[Towerwatchman]

No Hebrews does not credit Jesus as the creator of all. It says by whom (the Word) he (the Father) made all things.

Follow the narrative, the father is speaking to the son.

 

[Nathan P]

Follow the narrative, the father is speaking to the son.

But it clearly says by whom the Word) he (the Father) created all. The Father already had spoken and men are saying what Jesus told them. It says he is speaking to us through his Son.

 

[Jewjitzu]

YHWH / Jesus Created Alone By Himself.

Not quite.

(Is 44:24) Thus says the Lord [YHWH], your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord [YHWH}, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;.

Interesting, so God created Jesus in the womb. And Isaiah 63:16 says the YHWH, the Father, is the Redeemer.

YHWH states that He exclusively, alone and without anyone else involved, brought about the physical and temporal. He alone is the cause that brought about the effect =all that exist.

Yes.

Jn 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Yes, the Father's spoken words.

Note the emphatic contrast in the statement.
“All” = exclusive, used to refer to the whole quantity, quantity of what = anything created.
“Nothing” exclusive, not anything; no single thing. Makes it clear if anything was created it was created by Jesus.

Seem to have a contradiction. Was it Jesus, or was it YHWH who created, exclusively, alone by Himself.

The Father.

(Heb 1:8–10). But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God [HO THEOS}, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God [HO THEOS}, , Your God [HO THEOS}, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” 10 And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Actually, Psalm 45 the original doesn't mention God speaking of any son.

The Father identifies Himself as God {HO THEOS] in vs 9.
The same Father who identified as [HO THEOS] in vs 9 addresses the Son as {HO THEOS} in vs 8 and 9.
The same Father who identified as [HO THEOS] in vs 9 addresses the Son as {HO THEOS} in vs 8 and 9 states in vs 10 that the temporal and physical coming into existence from nothing and by nothing was the works of Jesus’ hands.

Note: HO THEOS is the Greek equivalent of YHWH.

No, it's used for judges, Ex 22:8-9, and Satan, 2 Cor 4:4 as well.

Premise 1= Isaiah 44:24 YHWH brought about creation alone, by Himself.

Yep, the Father.

Premise 2= John 1:3 States that anything that was created was created exclusively by Jesus.

Doesn't mention Jesus.

Premise 3 = Hebrews 1:8-10 The Father identifies Jesus as HO THEOS

False, Psalm 45 denies that.

Premise 4 = Hebrews 1:8-10 The Father states that creation was the direct result of Jesus’ ‘HANDS’.
Conclusion Jesus is YHWH along with the Father.

False.

 

[Towerwatchman]

But it clearly says by whom the Word) he (the Father) created all. The Father already had spoken and men are saying what Jesus told them. It says he is speaking to us through his Son.

Follow the narrative the Father says this to the Son.


“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”

God bless.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Follow the narrative the Father says this to the Son.


“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”

God bless.

Psalm 45 debunks this.

 

[Nathan P]

Follow the narrative the Father says this to the Son.


“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”

God bless.

No just answer the question instead of evading it by getting a vs that proves nothing. Who does Hebrews 1 say created all things and through whom? So in this one he laid the foundation for the earth and the heavens were the work of his hands? Work does not mean creation and instead as directed they were the work of his hands under the guidance of the Father.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Vs 26 Elohim carries a plural verb, therefore is plural. God in plural form said X. That is the Trinity discussing amongst itself.

False. God "said". Said is singular. So God is speaking singularly to others not Himself.

Vs 27 Elohim is singular.
Conclusion, one of the members of the trinity in verse 26, created in verse 27

False. See above.

 

[Towerwatchman]

But it clearly says by whom the Word) he (the Father) created all. The Father already had spoken and men are saying what Jesus told them. It says he is speaking to us through his Son.

No just answer the question instead of evading it by getting a vs that proves nothing. Who does Hebrews 1 say created all things and through whom? So in this one he laid the foundation for the earth and the heavens were the work of his hands? Work does not mean creation and instead as directed they were the work of his hands under the guidance of the Father.

I answered your question..
note the author of Hebrews credits Jesus as God by quoting Ps 102
25 Of old You laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
26 They will perish, but You will [d]endure;
Yes, they will all grow old like a garment;
Like a cloak You will change them,
And they will be changed.
27 But You are the same,
And Your years will have no end.

No one doubts that psalms, 102 is crediting God with creation.

 

[Nathan P]

I answered your question..
note the author of Hebrews credits Jesus as God by quoting Ps 102
25 Of old You laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
26 They will perish, but You will [d]endure;
Yes, they will all grow old like a garment;
Like a cloak You will change them,
And they will be changed.
27 But You are the same,
And Your years will have no end.

No one doubts that psalms, 102 is crediting God with creation.

No you are evading and just answer about when you said Hebrews 1 was crediting Jesus as being the creator.

 

[Nathan P]

I answered your question..
note the author of Hebrews credits Jesus as God by quoting Ps 102
25 Of old You laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
26 They will perish, but You will [d]endure;
Yes, they will all grow old like a garment;
Like a cloak You will change them,
And they will be changed.
27 But You are the same,
And Your years will have no end.

No one doubts that psalms, 102 is crediting God with creation.

Psalms 102 says nothing about Jesus creating and they are the work of his hands when he was the Word under the guidance of the Father. Deal with Hebrews and who it says created things.