You are Oneness/nontrinitarian, correct?

Yahchristian

Well-known member
You are Oneness/nontrinitarian, correct?

No. I am non-Trinitarian, but I am not Oneness.

Trinitarians believe "The Word, uniting to himself in his person the flesh animated by a rational soul, became man."

Oneness believe "He was more than God animating a human body. He was actually God incarnate—God dwelling and manifesting Himself as a true human."

I agree with that Oneness statement. But...

Whereas Oneness believe God first manifest as a human when he was born to Mary, I believe God first manifest as a human the instant he created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe.


Here is an overview of what I believe...

(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)

For this creation, GOD (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how GOD would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal GOD (called God the Father) created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us, GOD himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.

Can you post an overeview of what YOU believe?
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Can you post an overeview of what YOU believe?

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
IOW THREE distinct Persons, each of whom is God.
 

aeg4971

Active member
No. I am non-Trinitarian, but I am not Oneness.

Trinitarians believe "The Word, uniting to himself in his person the flesh animated by a rational soul, became man."

Oneness believe "He was more than God animating a human body. He was actually God incarnate—God dwelling and manifesting Himself as a true human."

I agree with that Oneness statement. But...

Whereas Oneness believe God first manifest as a human when he was born to Mary, I believe God first manifest as a human the instant he created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe.


Here is an overview of what I believe...

(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)

For this creation, GOD (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how GOD would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal GOD (called God the Father) created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us, GOD himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.

Can you post an overeview of what YOU believe?
Presentist do tell What is more animating a human body other than by way of hypostasis. I can't find nary supposition from Oneness Trinitarians Unitarians alike that is not determinate or manifestly expressed by way of divine hypostasis.

ROTFL Even we humans animate humanity by way of hypostasis. Why would not God in a more excellent way ?

....... Alan
 

Kampioen

Member
No. I am non-Trinitarian, but I am not Oneness.

Trinitarians believe "The Word, uniting to himself in his person the flesh animated by a rational soul, became man."

Oneness believe "He was more than God animating a human body. He was actually God incarnate—God dwelling and manifesting Himself as a true human."
I agree with that Oneness statement. But...

Whereas Oneness believe God first manifest as a human when he was born to Mary, I believe God first manifest as a human the instant he created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe.

But you are still the same as traditional Oneness now after the resurrection. What difference does the past make? That makes you Oneness.

Do you consider angels as human?

Scripture says of the time, God is not a man that He should lie. … indicating that God in the Old Testament could not have been a man, except maybe temporarily.

In an instant, eternal GOD (called God the Father) created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God)

God wouldn't need to "become" immanent because God would already be upholding and omnipresently at all points in creation.

The Trinity would be meaningless outside of creation but revealed within creation.
 

aeg4971

Active member
But you are still the same as traditional Oneness now after the resurrection. What difference does the past make? That makes you Oneness.

Do you consider angels as human?

Scripture says of the time, God is not a man that He should lie. … indicating that God in the Old Testament could not have been a man, except maybe temporarily.



God wouldn't need to "become" immanent because God would already be upholding and omnipresently at all points in creation.

The Trinity would be meaningless outside of creation but revealed within creation.
Presentist more or less teach a round about way, The Father is the spirit and the Son is the flesh. Which is actually quite silly when scriptures designate the Son to be God own Word Himself.


...... Alan
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Presentist more or less teach a round about way, The Father is the spirit and the Son is the flesh. Which is actually quite silly when scriptures designate the Son to be God own Word Himself.

No need to guess what I believe.

In fact, I may be the only one on this forum who has posted an overview of what they believe over a hundred times (including in this thread).

This is what I believe...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Can you post an overeview of what YOU believe?
 

aeg4971

Active member
No need to guess what I believe.

In fact, I may be the only one on this forum who has posted an overview of what they believe over a hundred times (including in this thread).

This is what I believe...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Can you post an overeview of what YOU believe?
I don't guess what you believe , I do however understand what the post Apostolic Greek fathers and Latin doctors would interpret of your beliefs.

You necessarily signify a distinction in the supposita of which it is spoken ; and this is in the apprehension as one regards Himself to another (ie relative predication) but yet you indirectly teach the Father is the spirit the son is the flesh and the Holy Spirit is merely personified.

I believe without quantity that the plentitude of God greatness as He said to Moses while giving the oracles on the mount is ; communicated or distributed ; and this is by the relation of divine Self awareness in One supposita or hypostasis of the Father another of the Son and another of the Holy Spirit ". God is His very own Godhead. So the Greeks say," Tres hypostases un Ousia". This name Trinity.



........ Alan
 

aeg4971

Active member
Can you explain what you mean?

I would not have expected a Trinitarian to say that.
I answer that It is upon the activity in creation that we bare witness to a subsisting relation in the divine nature of three interrelated persons. According to scriptures alone; One is the Father another is the Son and another is the Holy Spirit". And because In God what is indeterminately signified by plurality is signified by Trinity in a determinate manner . So the Greeks say," Tres hypostases un Ousia".

Contrary to popular belief Trine terminology was not imposed to teach the polytheism of three gods , bur rather to NEGATE the impious of Sebellius and the heresy of Arius. It would do quite well for Oneness Trinitarians Unitarians alike to remember that when affirming or denying creedal language. Otherwise most of you end up refuting yourself by effectively teaching polytheism in your zeal to avoid polytheism. Oh the irony!!!!!!!!!!!!

........ Alan
 

Kampioen

Member
" Kampioen said:
The Trinity would be meaningless outside of creation but revealed within creation. "

Can you explain what you mean?

I would not have expected a Trinitarian to say that.

God is beyond us.

It is an explanation that reconciles Scriptures that present God as three interacting distinctions yet is one God. ...

But with your view God apparently decided to produce a second personality. That is role play/modalism or perhaps
unitarianism or Nestorianism. Is one of these your view? .. or is it a hybrid of these?
 

civic

Well-known member
No. I am non-Trinitarian, but I am not Oneness.

Trinitarians believe "The Word, uniting to himself in his person the flesh animated by a rational soul, became man."

Oneness believe "He was more than God animating a human body. He was actually God incarnate—God dwelling and manifesting Himself as a true human."

I agree with that Oneness statement. But...

Whereas Oneness believe God first manifest as a human when he was born to Mary, I believe God first manifest as a human the instant he created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe.


Here is an overview of what I believe...

(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)

For this creation, GOD (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how GOD would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal GOD (called God the Father) created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us, GOD himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.

Can you post an overeview of what YOU believe?
@Kampioen is correct you are oneness by your above statement of faith. You can deny it all you want but your above confession makes you oneness/modalist.

hope this helps !!!
 

civic

Well-known member
God is beyond us.

It is an explanation that reconciles Scriptures that present God as three interacting distinctions yet is one God. ...

But with your view God apparently decided to produce a second personality. That is role play/modalism or perhaps
unitarianism or Nestorianism. Is one of these your view? .. or is it a hybrid of these?
I would say a modified or hybrid modalist.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
I would say a modified or hybrid modalist.

True, since a “form” of God would be a “mode” of God based on the definitions of the words...

mode: a way or manner in which something occurs or is experienced, expressed, or done.

form: the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision

Philippians 2:6... Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

So Jesus is God in the “form” (“mode”) of a human.

Here is how I describe it...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
 

Kampioen

Member
True, since a “form” of God would be a “mode” of God based on the definitions of the words...

mode: a way or manner in which something occurs or is experienced, expressed, or done.

form: the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision

Philippians 2:6... Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

So Jesus is God in the “form” (“mode”) of a human.

Here is how I describe it...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
Nice change of topic. Modalism means role playing.
How does the Father speak to someone He experiences is Himself speaking?
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Nice change of topic. Modalism means role playing.

Well I do NOT believe in “role playing”. I believe...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.


How does the Father speak to someone He experiences is Himself speaking?

GOD in the universe as a human is speaking to eternal GOD.

How does one omniscient Person speak to another omniscient Person since they both have the same thoughts?
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
How does one mode say to another mode, "Not my will be done, but yours"?

Because GOD in the universe as a human has a will and eternal eternal GOD has a will.

How does one omniscient Person say to another omniscient Person “Not my will be done, but yours”?
 
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