You Might Just Be A Semi-Deist If…

Sketo

Sketo

Well-known member
“Deism is essentially the view that God exists, but that He is not directly involved in the world. Deism pictures God as the great “clockmaker” who created the clock, wound it up, and let it go. A deist believes that God exists and created the world, but does not interfere with His creation…

Deists deny the Trinity, the inspiration of the Bible, the deity of Christ, miracles, and any supernatural act of redemption or salvation. Deism pictures God as uncaring and uninvolved. Thomas Jefferson was a famous deist, referring often in his writings to “Providence.” - GotQuestions


I don’t believe anyone in this forum is a full blown Deist, in the sense that they agree with the part in red,
but what are your thoughts on the part in black?

This is a question of Gods metaphysical relationship with his creation…

Are you, at minimum, a semi-Deist?


CCP​
 
I haven't met on on this forum, have you ?

From either the words in black or red.
 
Chalcedon said:
I haven't met on on this forum, have you ?
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Yes there are plenty even if they are not aware of it yet…

Chalcedon said:
From either the words in black or red.
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Do you believe God is directly involved in Satan’s act’s of sin…

… or do you believe God merely created Satan, but then does not interfere, by direct involvement in his sinful acts as suggested by the black part of the definition?

Most do not realize how much of a semi-Deist they are until it is pointed out to them…

…
 
Sketo said:
Yes there are plenty even if they are not aware of it yet…



Do you believe God is directly involved in Satan’s act’s of sin…

… or do you believe God merely created Satan, but then does not interfere, by direct involvement in his sinful acts as suggested by the black part of the definition?

Most do not realize how much of a semi-Deist they are until it is pointed out to them…

…
Click to expand...
Got Scripture ?

I'm not into "philosophical " speculations without a Bible reference.

hope this helps !!!
 
Sketo said:
“Deism is essentially the view that God exists, but that He is not directly involved in the world. Deism pictures God as the great “clockmaker” who created the clock, wound it up, and let it go. A deist believes that God exists and created the world, but does not interfere with His creation…

Deists deny the Trinity, the inspiration of the Bible, the deity of Christ, miracles, and any supernatural act of redemption or salvation. Deism pictures God as uncaring and uninvolved. Thomas Jefferson was a famous deist, referring often in his writings to “Providence.” - GotQuestions


I don’t believe anyone in this forum is a full blown Deist, in the sense that they agree with the part in red,
but what are your thoughts on the part in black?

This is a question of Gods metaphysical relationship with his creation…

Are you, at minimum, a semi-Deist?

CCP​
Click to expand...

It seems many predeterminists present God as not directly involved in creation but deistically lets the dominos do it. Otherwise God would get blamed for sin for doing it directly.
 
Kampioen said:
It seems many predeterminists present God as not directly involved in creation but deistically lets the dominos do it. Otherwise God would get blamed for sin for doing it directly.
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except calvinism it is God who is responsible and has determinined everything including sin/satan.
 
Sketo said:
“Deism is essentially the view that God exists, but that He is not directly involved in the world. Deism pictures God as the great “clockmaker” who created the clock, wound it up, and let it go. A deist believes that God exists and created the world, but does not interfere with His creation…

Deists deny the Trinity, the inspiration of the Bible, the deity of Christ, miracles, and any supernatural act of redemption or salvation. Deism pictures God as uncaring and uninvolved. Thomas Jefferson was a famous deist, referring often in his writings to “Providence.” - GotQuestions


I don’t believe anyone in this forum is a full blown Deist, in the sense that they agree with the part in red,
but what are your thoughts on the part in black?

This is a question of Gods metaphysical relationship with his creation…

Are you, at minimum, a semi-Deist?


CCP​
Click to expand...
I would substitute "objectively" for "directly". God cannot be objectively worshipped. God does not objectively exist. God is the origin of everything that objectively exists. There is a direct connection. It just isn't an objective connection.

Therefore, I am neither a deist nor a semi deist.
 
Sketo said:
Yes, Calvinism denies all forms of Deism…

So where do you fall on the spectrum?…

…
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God is not responsible for the creation of evil nor does He do acts of evil or have others do those evil acts on His behalf. And I could care less what that makes me in anyone's view. I'm all about exalting Gods Holy character.

hope this helps !!!
 
Chalcedon said:
God is not responsible for the creation of evil…
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God is Ultimately “responsible” for all things that happen within his creation if only by the sheer fact that they would not have happened if God did not create.

The fact that God 100% knew the results of his act of creating and chose to create anyway raises his “responsibility” to a level of intent

… but this does not ever mean that it can reach the level of “moral responsibility” on Gods part because “morality” deals with laws, but “causation” deals with metaphysics.

Chalcedon said:
…nor does He do acts of evil…
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Of course not… Evil is not a substance… Sin is not a created thing. It is a description of disobedience to God’s law. It is not “created” by God or by us.

Causation deals with metaphysics. Sin/Evil deals with laws. There is no law for God that says “thou shalt not cause Sin/Evil”. God causing acts of evil is not the same as “doing acts of evil”…

Remember, even in your view, God created knowing that act would be the Ultimate cause of the known results including “evil”.

Chalcedon said:
or have others do those evil acts on His behalf.
Click to expand...

There are many verses that show God is a cause of evil acts… this is not the same as God being the one “doing those acts”. You can not conflate the two.

Chalcedon said:
And I could care less what that makes me in anyone's view.
Click to expand...

I understand and I agree. That is why I remain a Calvinist in spite of all the negativity…

Chalcedon said:
I'm all about exalting Gods Holy character.
Click to expand...

I commend you for this and all I’m trying to do is help you remain biblical while doing it..

At the end of the day, once you realize that sin itself cannot even occur apart from the power of God, then there is no argument. To shy away from this is to commit to semi-deism, and the idea that there are other self-sustained powers ultimately at work in the universe.

Lastly, if Heb 1:3 is true and God upholds your existence moment by moment, then he must choose to exert the power necessary for you to continue to exist in the next moment, even while you sin. Therefore God is determining that such things occur by choosing to exert such power.

Nothing can occur unless God causes it to occur by His power, including sin. God upholds our existence at all times (Heb 1:3) even while sinning and we live and move and have our being in God (Acts 17:28) even while we sin.

…
 
Sketo said:
God is Ultimately “responsible” for all things that happen within his creation if only by the sheer fact that they would not have happened if God did not create.

The fact that God 100% knew the results of his act of creating and chose to create anyway raises his “responsibility” to a level of intent

… but this does not ever mean that it can reach the level of “moral responsibility” on Gods part because “morality” deals with laws, but “causation” deals with metaphysics.



Of course not… Evil is not a substance… Sin is not a created thing. It is a description of disobedience to God’s law. It is not “created” by God or by us.

Causation deals with metaphysics. Sin/Evil deals with laws. There is no law for God that says “thou shalt not cause Sin/Evil”. God causing acts of evil is not the same as “doing acts of evil”…

Remember, even in your view, God created knowing that act would be the Ultimate cause of the known results including “evil”.



There are many verses that show God is a cause of evil acts… this is not the same as God being the one “doing those acts”. You can not conflate the two.



I understand and I agree. That is why I remain a Calvinist in spite of all the negativity…



I commend you for this and all I’m trying to do is help you remain biblical while doing it..

At the end of the day, once you realize that sin itself cannot even occur apart from the power of God, then there is no argument. To shy away from this is to commit to semi-deism, and the idea that there are other self-sustained powers ultimately at work in the universe.

Lastly, if Heb 1:3 is true and God upholds your existence moment by moment, then he must choose to exert the power necessary for you to continue to exist in the next moment, even while you sin. Therefore God is determining that such things occur by choosing to exert such power.

Nothing can occur unless God causes it to occur by His power, including sin. God upholds our existence at all times (Heb 1:3) even while sinning and we live and move and have our being in God (Acts 17:28) even while we sin.

…
Click to expand...
I side with Got Questions below on the issue. Did God create evil ?

God did not create evil, but He does allow evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their “programming.” God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether or not we wanted to serve Him.

As finite human beings, we can never fully understand an infinite God (Romans 11:33-34). Sometimes we think we understand why God is doing something, only to find out later that it was for a different purpose than we originally thought. God looks at things from a holy, eternal perspective. We look at things from a sinful, earthly, and temporal perspective. Why did God put man on earth knowing that Adam and Eve would sin and therefore bring evil, death, and suffering on all mankind? Why didn’t He just create us all and leave us in heaven where we would be perfect and without suffering? These questions cannot be adequately answered this side of eternity. What we can know is whatever God does is holy and perfect and ultimately will glorify Him. God allowed for the possibility of evil in order to give us a true choice in regards to whether we worship Him. God did not create evil, but He allowed it. If He had not allowed evil, we would be worshiping Him out of obligation, not by a choice of our own will.
 
And this from Don Stewart :

Humanity Is Responsible For Evil

However, the origin of evil lies not with God but with humanity. When God created human beings He gave them a choice to obey or disobey. When Adam and Eve chose to disobey God they brought evil into the universe. Evil is an action or relationship, not a created substance.

Did God Create Evil?

One passage of Scripture seems to teach that God created evil. In the King James Bible Isaiah 45:7 reads the following.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things
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However this is not what the original Hebrew says. The word translated "evil" is the word ra. It also means sorrow, calamity, disaster, afflictions, and adversity. Modern translations have correctly translated the passage with a different English word such as the following example.

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things (Isaiah 45:7).
Click to expand...

Therefore the Scriptures do not teach that God was the originator of evil.

God Gave Humanity Choice

God did not create evil and neither is He to blame for the evil in the universe. God could have made people in such a way that they would be robots who would react when God made them do so. But that would not give humanity any significance. God decided to make people in such a way that they could choose whether or not to obey Him.

Evil Was The Choice Of Humankind

Furthermore, much of the evil in the universe is due to the direct choice of individuals. Murder, stealing, lying, and such cannot be blamed upon God. People choose to do these things and must be held accountable.

Natural Disasters Are A Result Of A Fallen World

What about earthquakes, floods, volcanoes, and famines? Though natural disasters such as earthquakes and famines are not caused by humans, humanity is indirectly responsible for their occurrence. They occur as a result of our sin. When sin entered the universe everything was affected. Suffering and evil go together. The perfect working order is now tainted by sin. The Bible says that the entire creation is now suffering.

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the children of God; for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and will obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning in labor pains until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies (Romans 8:19-23)
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He Is Able To Do Something About Evil

If God is a good God then why is there evil in the universe? Is it because God is not good, or is it because God is not powerful enough to deal with evil? Asking this question infers God is either unable or unwilling to deal with evil. But neither is the case.

God is certainly able to do something about evil. The Bible teaches that God is all-powerful.

Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh. Is there anything too hard for me? (Jeremiah 32:27).
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The fact that God is powerful enough to deal with evil is not the issue. He has demonstrated time and time again that He has the capability to end evil.

God is also a God of love who cares for His people. The Scripture teaches that God always has the best interest of humanity in mind in every decision that He makes.

Summary

The Bible recognizes that evil does exist but God did not create evil. Evil came as a result of humanity's choice. Natural disasters are a result of humanity's original sin. Therefore God cannot be blamed for the evil that continues. Humanity is directly or indirectly responsible for evil.https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_1379.cfm
 
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Sketo said:
God is Ultimately “responsible” for all things that happen within his creation if only by the sheer fact that they would not have happened if God did not create.

The fact that God 100% knew the results of his act of creating and chose to create anyway raises his “responsibility” to a level of intent

… but this does not ever mean that it can reach the level of “moral responsibility” on Gods part because “morality” deals with laws, but “causation” deals with metaphysics.


Of course not… Evil is not a substance… Sin is not a created thing. It is a description of disobedience to God’s law. It is not “created” by God or by us.

Causation deals with metaphysics. Sin/Evil deals with laws. There is no law for God that says “thou shalt not cause Sin/Evil”. God causing acts of evil is not the same as “doing acts of evil”…

Remember, even in your view, God created knowing that act would be the Ultimate cause of the known results including “evil”.


There are many verses that show God is a cause of evil acts… this is not the same as God being the one “doing those acts”. You can not conflate the two.


I understand and I agree. That is why I remain a Calvinist in spite of all the negativity…


I commend you for this and all I’m trying to do is help you remain biblical while doing it..

At the end of the day, once you realize that sin itself cannot even occur apart from the power of God, then there is no argument. To shy away from this is to commit to semi-deism, and the idea that there are other self-sustained powers ultimately at work in the universe.

Lastly, if Heb 1:3 is true and God upholds your existence moment by moment, then he must choose to exert the power necessary for you to continue to exist in the next moment, even while you sin. Therefore God is determining that such things occur by choosing to exert such power.

Nothing can occur unless God causes it to occur by His power, including sin. God upholds our existence at all times (Heb 1:3) even while sinning and we live and move and have our being in God (Acts 17:28) even while we sin.
Click to expand...

You have God puppeteer both sides of an argument and expect them to libertarianly respond. Correct?

And furthermore you have God with no other choice but to write the one particular script for the puppeteering. Correct?

And you can feel libertarian indignation within yourself to what I say. Correct?
 
Sketo said:
Like I said many do not realize how semi-deistic they are until it’s pointed out.

So, where do you fall on the spectrum?…
Click to expand...

If how you view deism has anything to do with a power existing despite God or God creates a power that subsequently exists despite God that God taps into, then I am zero deist in that part. Within this scope I believe God created libertarian free choice ie non-predetermined.

If your view of deism includes that God didn't intervene in a man's choice, at least ultimately, then I am deist in that part, ... but not as a power despite God.

If your view of deism includes that there are some random events in nature where God doesn't intervene then I am deist in that part, ... but not as a power despite God.

How do you view deism in light of this?
 
It seems to me, everyone who believes God sometimes chooses not to intervene with laws he set in place would qualify for this specific definition.

It also seems like a poisoning of the well to hijack a term that is erroneous when believed without qualification.

It would be like saying someone is a "semi-determinist" if they believed some things were divinely determined, but not all things.

This is also why I have some qualms with the term "semi-pelagian," as its significance seems to derive from its all or nothing status.
 
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