You Might Just Be A Semi-Deist If…

K

Kampioen

Well-known member
Sketo said:
The only difference with a “miracle” is they do not have a “natural” chain of reasoning that can explain them.

This does not mean that God is not supernaturally working “all things”, it just means in these particular instances God is working them differently from the way he normally does.
Click to expand...

I would include an exhaustive meticulously correct guess as a miracle. Wouldn't you?
 
G

guest1

Guest
Dizerner said:
You honestly remind me more of Winman. Lol.

He loved to preach about humanity being born good.
Click to expand...
no I believe in the depravity of man just as Arminius taught it.


Jacob Arminius writes,

“IN the state of Primitive Innocence, man had a mind endued with a clear understanding of heavenly light and truth concerning God, and his works and will, as far as was sufficient for the salvation of man and the glory of God; he had a heart imbued with ‘righteousness and true holiness,’ and with a true and saving love of good; and powers abundantly qualified or furnished perfectly to fulfill the law which God had imposed on him. This admits easily of proof, from the description of the image of God, after which man is said to have been created, (Gen 1:26-27) from the law divinely imposed on him, which had a promise and a threat appended to it, (Gen 2:17) and lastly from the analogous restoration of the same image in Christ Jesus. (Eph 4:24, Col 3:10)



But man was not so confirmed in this state of innocence, as to be incapable of being moved, by the representation presented to him of some good, (whether it was of an inferior kind and relating to this animal life, or of a superior-kind and relating to spiritual life) inordinately and unlawfully to look upon it and to desire it, and of his own spontaneous as well as free motion, and through a preposterous desire for that good, to decline from the obedience which had been prescribed to him. Nay, having turned away from the light of his own mind and his chief good, which is God, or, at least, having turned towards that chief good not in the manner in which he ought to have done, and besides having turned in mind and heart towards an inferior good, he transgressed the command given to him for life. By this foul deed, he precipitated himself from that noble and elevated condition into a state of the deepest infelicity, which is under the dominion of sin. For ‘to whom any one yields himself a servant to obey,’ (Rom 6:16) and ‘of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage,’ and is his regularly assigned slave. (2 Pet 2:19)



In this state, the free will of man towards the true good is not only wounded, maimed, infirm, bent, and weakened; but it is also imprisoned, destroyed, and lost. And its powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they be assisted by grace, but it has no powers whatever except such as are excited by Divine grace. For Christ has said, ‘Without me ye can do nothing.’ St. Augustine, after having diligently meditated upon each word in this passage, speaks thus: ‘Christ does not say, without me ye can do but Little; neither does He say, without me ye can do any Arduous Thing, nor without me ye can do it with difficulty. But he says, without me ye can do Nothing! Nor does he say, without me ye cannot complete any thing; but without me ye can do Nothing.’ That this may be made more manifestly to appear, we will separately consider the mind, the affections or will, and the capability, as contra-distinguished from them, as well as the life itself of an unregenerate man.” 6



Arminius further writes,

“THIS is my opinion concerning the free-will of man: In his primitive condition as he came out of the hands of his creator, man was endowed with such a portion of knowledge, holiness and power, as enabled him to understand, esteem, consider, will, and to perform the true good, according to the commandment delivered to him. Yet none of these acts could he do, except through the assistance of Divine Grace. But in his lapsed and sinful state, man is not capable, of and by himself, either to think, to will, or to do that which is really good; but it is necessary for him to be regenerated and renewed in his intellect, affections or will, and in all his powers, by God in Christ through the Holy Spirit, that he may be qualified rightly to understand, esteem, consider, will, and perform whatever is truly good. When he is made a partaker of this regeneration or renovation, I consider that, since he is delivered from sin, he is capable of thinking, willing and doing that which is good, but yet not without the continued aids of Divine Grace.” https://www.ccel.org/ccel/arminius/works1.v.xii.html
 
ReverendRV

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Chalcedon said:
no I believe in the depravity of man just as Arminius taught it.


Jacob Arminius writes,

“IN the state of Primitive Innocence, man had a mind endued with a clear understanding of heavenly light and truth concerning God, and his works and will, as far as was sufficient for the salvation of man and the glory of God; he had a heart imbued with ‘righteousness and true holiness,’ and with a true and saving love of good; and powers abundantly qualified or furnished perfectly to fulfill the law which God had imposed on him. This admits easily of proof, from the description of the image of God, after which man is said to have been created, (Gen 1:26-27) from the law divinely imposed on him, which had a promise and a threat appended to it, (Gen 2:17) and lastly from the analogous restoration of the same image in Christ Jesus. (Eph 4:24, Col 3:10)



But man was not so confirmed in this state of innocence, as to be incapable of being moved, by the representation presented to him of some good, (whether it was of an inferior kind and relating to this animal life, or of a superior-kind and relating to spiritual life) inordinately and unlawfully to look upon it and to desire it, and of his own spontaneous as well as free motion, and through a preposterous desire for that good, to decline from the obedience which had been prescribed to him. Nay, having turned away from the light of his own mind and his chief good, which is God, or, at least, having turned towards that chief good not in the manner in which he ought to have done, and besides having turned in mind and heart towards an inferior good, he transgressed the command given to him for life. By this foul deed, he precipitated himself from that noble and elevated condition into a state of the deepest infelicity, which is under the dominion of sin. For ‘to whom any one yields himself a servant to obey,’ (Rom 6:16) and ‘of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage,’ and is his regularly assigned slave. (2 Pet 2:19)



In this state, the free will of man towards the true good is not only wounded, maimed, infirm, bent, and weakened; but it is also imprisoned, destroyed, and lost. And its powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they be assisted by grace, but it has no powers whatever except such as are excited by Divine grace. For Christ has said, ‘Without me ye can do nothing.’ St. Augustine, after having diligently meditated upon each word in this passage, speaks thus: ‘Christ does not say, without me ye can do but Little; neither does He say, without me ye can do any Arduous Thing, nor without me ye can do it with difficulty. But he says, without me ye can do Nothing! Nor does he say, without me ye cannot complete any thing; but without me ye can do Nothing.’ That this may be made more manifestly to appear, we will separately consider the mind, the affections or will, and the capability, as contra-distinguished from them, as well as the life itself of an unregenerate man.” 6



Arminius further writes,

“THIS is my opinion concerning the free-will of man: In his primitive condition as he came out of the hands of his creator, man was endowed with such a portion of knowledge, holiness and power, as enabled him to understand, esteem, consider, will, and to perform the true good, according to the commandment delivered to him. Yet none of these acts could he do, except through the assistance of Divine Grace. But in his lapsed and sinful state, man is not capable, of and by himself, either to think, to will, or to do that which is really good; but it is necessary for him to be regenerated and renewed in his intellect, affections or will, and in all his powers, by God in Christ through the Holy Spirit, that he may be qualified rightly to understand, esteem, consider, will, and perform whatever is truly good. When he is made a partaker of this regeneration or renovation, I consider that, since he is delivered from sin, he is capable of thinking, willing and doing that which is good, but yet not without the continued aids of Divine Grace.” https://www.ccel.org/ccel/arminius/works1.v.xii.html
Click to expand...
Arminius is Grr-EAT!!!
 
ReverendRV

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Chalcedon said:
Not really and when I say man must believe and it’s his responsibility that does not nullify Gods grace preceding that faith . I believe Gods grace precedes the 10 points in the other thread
Click to expand...
You do sound more Arminian these days; that's cool...
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
Chalcedon said:
No I don’t it’s just my eyes 👁 have been opened and can see the errors I once believed .
Click to expand...

So YOU believed that "man was a robot"?!
So YOU believed that "God believes for us"?!

Well, you might have believed that, but Calvinists DON'T.

So kindly stop MISREPRESENTING Calvinism!
 
G

guest1

Guest
Theo1689 said:
So YOU believed that "man was a robot"?!
So YOU believed that "God believes for us"?!

Well, you might have believed that, but Calvinists DON'T.

So kindly stop MISREPRESENTING Calvinism!
Click to expand...
Everyone except the Calvinist can see it . Once you step outside your paradigm you would see it yourself . But Calvinists like Seth use to say had a problem some kind of a strong something or other preventing them from seeing it .
 
Dizerner

Dizerner

Well-known member
Personally, I don't even have a problem with the whole robot language. I don't understand why determinists don't just embrace the logical implications.

In many ways I would prefer to be a robot because personal responsibility is quite difficult.
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
Chalcedon said:
Everyone except the Calvinist can see it .
Click to expand...

I see... So only non-Calvinists believe men are robots and God believes for people?
Sorry, if Calvinists "can't see it", then that means Calvinists don't BELIEVE it, and so you need to stop using such straw-men.

Chalcedon said:
Once you step outside your paradigm you would see it yourself . But Calvinists like Seth use to say had a problem some kind of a strong something or other preventing them from seeing it .
Click to expand...

This is nothing but childish and self-serving ad hominem.
You can say we're under a stronghold.
And we can say you're under a stronghold.

And neither accusation is provable, nor does it move the discussion forward.
All it does is demonstrate contempt for the other side.
 
G

guest1

Guest
Theo1689 said:
I see... So only non-Calvinists believe men are robots and God believes for people?
Sorry, if Calvinists "can't see it", then that means Calvinists don't BELIEVE it, and so you need to stop using such straw-men.



This is nothing but childish and self-serving ad hominem.
You can say we're under a stronghold.
And we can say you're under a stronghold.

And neither accusation is provable, nor does it move the discussion forward.
All it does is demonstrate contempt for the other side.
Click to expand...
Lol I admit my mistakes when I was a Calvinist , it’s like telling a Mormon about Mormonism . When they are in it they cannot see it until God opens their eyes . It’s why I said if you could step outside or your paradigm and look objectively you would see things differently.

And fyi I’m not saying Calvinism is a cult

hope this helos
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top