The Lord did not take away Job's libertarianism. The Calvinist isn't wrong here because God didn't predetermine Job to sin.
You Might Just Be A Semi-Deist If…
- Thread starter Sketo
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The Lord did not take away Job's libertarianism. The Calvinist isn't wrong here because God didn't predetermine Job to sin.
Theophilus
Well-known member
Remember the OP is fatalistic determinism.
Sketo
Well-known member
Off topic.
The context of this thread is weather your Deism is true, not about your unjustified “Libertariansm from God”.
And you failed to answer the question:
How can Job ascribe these means of “taking away” to the LORD and it not be a “sin” or be considered “charging God with wrong”…
but if a Calvinist declared “the LORD has taken away” by these same means then the Non-Calvinists would say “you sin and charge God with wrong”?
What’s the difference?🤷🏻♂️
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The Arminian could be thinking that a Calvinist saying the Lord gives and the Lord takes away may mean God's cause of suffering is not for man's sake or benefit. While for the Arminian it is for man's sake or a test for man.
Theophilus
Well-known member
Paul speaks to his arguments here in Colossians 2:8- See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception [pseudo-intellectual babble], according to the tradition [and musings] of mere men, following the elementary principles of this world, rather than following [the truth—the teachings of] Christ. Acts 17- Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection
David1701
Well-known member
God could not take away what He had not given Job (or anyone else) in the first place.
The part in bold is an admission that you are a semi-Deist.
And who predetermined God what to do? A deism?
David1701
Well-known member
What are you talking about?
Like viewing exhaustive predeterminism as meaning God has no other choice but to give us no other choice?
Sketo
Well-known member
Why would God "have no other choice" if he is the original Determinor of all things?
Your statment makes no sense unless you believe that something before God Determined god to determine, but then you would have Provisionist circular reasoning.
On Provisionism God has no other choice but to "deal with the hand he was dealt" by man.
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Theo1689
Well-known member
Sketo
Well-known member
They think that God Determining all things about his creation somehow means "God had no other choice" 🤷🏻 I don't get it.
In the Calvinist view God is the most free being there is. In all other views God is merely responding to things presented to him from external sources.
Strange how they can't see this.
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No I don't see how libertarianism means there is a force/deism outside of God making His decisions for Him. God is His own Deism.
I don't understand how a predeterminate God has any other choice but to give us no other choice. Free? There exhaustively isn't anything else He could have considered. Yeah, He's free to do that.
Your view has God exhaustively predetermine some others to believe libertarianism. What is that? Here we are, freely.
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Sketo
Well-known member
“his own Deism”
Are you suggesting that there are other “Deism’s” in existence?
“The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.” (Pro 16:4)
“remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’” (Isa 46:9-10)
These “purposes” for ALL things were predetermined before anything was made and you have no justification to the contrary of God’s statement “My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,”
Yes and he also predetermined that Pharaoh believe that it was a good idea to not let the people go and Joseph’s brothers to think it was a good idea to sale him into slavery. What is that?
It’s called Storyline interactions Determined by the council of God to accomplish his ultimate purpose.
You may think you are “free” from God’s ultimate purpose he “made” you for but scripture does not support your delusion.
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Janice Bower
Well-known member
My mother denied the Trinity, the inspiration of the Bible, the deity of Christ, but her generic god took care of people. Her mother believed people were either born Christian or Jewish.
God makes His own choices, libertarian ones.
But even for a supposed outside deism, you would have to come up how those things made a decision.
But the deism is your philosophic deism that gives God His only choice.
He purposes those who are wicked for the day of trouble. It doesn't necessarily mean He uncondtionally made them wicked.
This to me means God does so by force if He has to.
People don't always follow God's purpose. But He blesses or punishes them to keep His purpose intact.
God does predetermine things. But that doesn't prove exhaustive predetemination.
God intervenes to complete His purpose. But that doesn't mean exhaustive storyline predetemination. That is your philosophic deism onto God.
We have a libertarian freedom within God's purpose.
But by you're exhaustive predeterminate script philosophy you're only free because you are made to think you're free.