You must be called by the King

Howie

Well-known member
John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life;
whoever
comes to me shall not hunger,
and whoever
believes in me shall never thirst.

"Coming" is symbolism for "believing".

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Those whom the Father draws will come, and be raised up on the last day.
I'm certain @cadwell never read Jn 6, particularly where Jesus says He'll raise those the Father draws to Him.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Tom, is He is claiming He will will draw ALL MEN WITHOUT EXCEPTION to Himself, yes, or no?

This is another double standard that they engage in.
They want to describe our beliefs so explicitly and precisely using words that are not found in the Bible, so that when they challenge us, they can say, "See? Those words aren't found in the Bible".

But when we try to get them to admit PRECISELY what they believe, they refuse to do so, since it shines a light on their disingenuous tactics. They'll only say "all men", and hope lurkers interpret it the same way they do, and they will NEVER say, "all men without exception", since they know they can't defend it.
 

Howie

Well-known member
Howie

the questions

Who is doing the drawing?

Who is he drawing?

Do you know how he draws?
Only the elect.

Now, Tom, the question is, is He is claiming He will will draw ALL MEN WITHOUT EXCEPTION to Himself, yes, or no?
 

fltom

Well-known member
This is another double standard that they engage in.
They want to describe our beliefs so explicitly and precisely using words that are not found in the Bible, so that when they challenge us, they can say, "See? Those words aren't found in the Bible".

But when we try to get them to admit PRECISELY what they believe, they refuse to do so, since it shines a light on their disingenuous tactics. They'll only say "all men", and hope lurkers interpret it the same way they do, and they will NEVER say, "all men without exception", since they know they can't defend it.
Funny coming from a guy who when challenged clams up and asserts his right to refuse to answer

BTW what do you thing all men means

some men?

Only the elect?

speak up
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Funny coming from a guy who when challenged clams up and asserts his right to refuse to answer

BTW what do you thing all men means

some men?

Only the elect?

speak up

Please stop harrassing me.
I'm not here to answer your "questions".
I have no need or obligation to waste my time.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
Would you say anyone can approach Christ the King Boldly, the same as you and I can boldly approach the High Priest's Throne of Grace; but they can't?
Jesus has invited all who are burdened and heavy laden to come, so yes. Besides, anyone who would seek to come before Jesus, would likely be one of those anyway.

Doug
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life;
whoever
comes to me shall not hunger,
and whoever
believes in me shall never thirst.

"Coming" is symbolism for "believing".

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Those whom the Father draws will come, and be raised up on the last day.

John 12:32 (KJV) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will **draw all men** unto me.

The Father draws all men. But not all come. Thus the requirement is drawing or they won't come. Thus the drawing is not irresistable.

But of those drawn, only the *seekers* fully feel the draw and come.

Acts 17:27 (KJV) That they should *seek* the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Acts 13:42 (KJV) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles *besought* that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Matthew 13:45 (KJV) Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, *seeking* goodly pearls:

Matthew 7:8 (KJV) For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that *seeketh* findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Malachi 3:1 (KJV) Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye *seek*, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Romans 9:31-32 (KJV)
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they **sought* it not by faith**, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
 

cadwell

Well-known member
John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life;
whoever
comes to me shall not hunger,
and whoever
believes in me shall never thirst.

"Coming" is symbolism for "believing".
COME and BELIEVE are two different words with two different meanings, and no where in scripture is coming “symbolic“ of believing.
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Those whom the Father draws will come, and be raised up on the last day.
The Father is not mentioned in John 12:32, Jesus said He draws all men to Himself. Your argument for conflating DRAW with BELIEVE seems to be nothing more than “Jesus said draw in John 6”. John 6 and John 12 are not saying the same thing.
 

cadwell

Well-known member
This is another double standard that they engage in.
They want to describe our beliefs so explicitly and precisely using words that are not found in the Bible, so that when they challenge us, they can say, "See? Those words aren't found in the Bible".

But when we try to get them to admit PRECISELY what they believe, they refuse to do so, since it shines a light on their disingenuous tactics. They'll only say "all men", and hope lurkers interpret it the same way they do, and they will NEVER say, "all men without exception", since they know they can't defend it.
I can’t speak for others, but when asked if “all men” meant without exception, I said “yes”. How can one be more direct?
 
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