You must be called by the King

PeanutGallery said:
Those who believe God's witnesses are given to the Son; after Christ's death, burial, resurrection God draws all men.
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Again, you are totally ignoring the condition of drawing as described by Jesus very clearly in John 6.

You have to ignore Jesus and pretend it is not there.

Those who believe as you wrote above are those who God draws, and not all people.

Why can you not get yourself to admit as much.

I know why, because then your whole premise of Jesus drawing every individual everywhere falls flat. And you of course cannot allow that.
 
Manfred said:
Again, you are totally ignoring the condition of drawing as described by Jesus very clearly in John 6.

You have to ignore Jesus and pretend it is not there.

Those who believe as you wrote above are those who God draws, and not all people.

Why can you not get yourself to admit as much.

I know why, because then your whole premise of Jesus drawing every individual everywhere falls flat. And you of course cannot allow that.
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and you must ignore what Jesus stated and the change that Christ's death and resurrection brought

John 12:32 (ESV) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
 
Manfred said:
...
Why can you not get yourself to admit as much.

I know why, ...
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Manfred said:
...
You deliberately exclude those passages...
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Reformedguy said:
... How many times must you and yours be corrected on this? ...
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Howie said:
Go do what I suggested. ...
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Manfred said:
...
You boasted... seem to boast in that doctrine that is a clear contradiction to what Jesus is teaching.
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Inconsistent Calvinists?
a) Don't you realize if Calvinism is true, then we are quoting the exact words which the Lord meticulously determined.
b) Should you not then praise the Lord for meticulously determining me to respond as a vessel of wrath?

shnarkle said:
Regardless, God foreordains some to be vessels of mercy while others are destined to be vessels fitted for destruction. As Paul points out, God will have mercy upon whoever he will have mercy upon.
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PeanutGallery said:
Inconsistent Calvinists?
a) Don't you realize if Calvinism is true, then we are quoting the exact words which the Lord meticulously determined.
b) Should you not then praise the Lord for meticulously determining me to respond as a vessel of wrath?
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I dont understand your point. Can you elaborate further?
 
fltom said:
and you must ignore what Jesus stated and the change that Christ's death and resurrection brought

John 12:32 (ESV) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
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You know something Tom, go and read what I wrote in my replies to the Poster PeanutGallery from the very first reply and stop thinking that I am some idiot that just throws statements around.

I showed very clearly that it cannot be all people as you which all people to mean otherwise Jesus Christ Himself contradicts Himself.
Now I know it is impossible for Jesus to contradict Himself, yet you do not seem to think Him being contradictory is a big deal.

So in all honesty, get off your high horse, read others defense of their position and try and disprove that.

So go back and read my specific reply to the exact same thing said by PeanutGallery and then refute that if you can.
 
PeanutGallery said:
Inconsistent Calvinists?
a) Don't you realize if Calvinism is true, then we are quoting the exact words which the Lord meticulously determined.
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So why think you are right? where is the problem.
PeanutGallery said:
b) Should you not then praise the Lord for meticulously determining me to respond as a vessel of wrath?
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Why should I praise Him for that. Everything He does is for His Glory. What should I do to glorify Him is to be obedient to what He teaches me through the indwelling Spirit. If He is glorified in my obedience, then He gets the glory.
Is He glorified because you refuse to be corrected, because you choose to be sovereign over Him!

Why not rather try and address the argument I presented instead of trying to create these ridiculous scenarios.
Why not rather ask: “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?”

Is that not ultimately what is bothering you. Why does He still find fault if he meticulously determined... who can resist His will if He meticulously determines....
Go ahead instead of making up all sorts of imagined contradictions that hurt your feelings, get down to the brass tacks and ask me, why He still finds fault, if you cannot resist His will. Or you could humble yourself before God and go to His word, and read what He inspired in scripture, without your tainted glasses on.
 
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TibiasDad said:
And yet Esther did go without being called! Indeed, the King's discretion bore her life, but she approached him unannounced and unbidden, trusting in God to stay his hand.

Doug
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Yes, she was loved by the King. It seems you are implying that anyone can approach the King, even if the King hates them?
 
PeanutGallery said:
Inconsistent Calvinists?
a) Don't you realize if Calvinism is true, then we are quoting the exact words which the Lord meticulously determined.
b) Should you not then praise the Lord for meticulously determining me to respond as a vessel of wrath?
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God gets glory in the destruction of the reprobate. Everything He does is glorious.
 
Manfred said:
You know something Tom, go and read what I wrote in my replies to the Poster PeanutGallery from the very first reply and stop thinking that I am some idiot that just throws statements around.

I showed very clearly that it cannot be all people as you which all people to mean otherwise Jesus Christ Himself contradicts Himself.
Now I know it is impossible for Jesus to contradict Himself, yet you do not seem to think Him being contradictory is a big deal.

So in all honesty, get off your high horse, read others defense of their position and try and disprove that.

So go back and read my specific reply to the exact same thing said by PeanutGallery and then refute that if you can.
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These were Jesus words

John 12:32 (ESV) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Who is doing the drawing?

Who is he drawing?

Do you know how he draws?
 
Manfred said:
Again, I addressed this in my responses to PeanutGallery.
Go and read it here: https://forums.carm.org/threads/you-must-be-called-by-the-king.10687/post-812582 and here: https://forums.carm.org/threads/you-must-be-called-by-the-king.10687/post-812597
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My name is not peanut gallery

and I do not believe he asked you the same questions

................................................

These were Jesus words

John 12:32 (ESV) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Who is doing the drawing?

Who is he drawing?

Do you know how he draws?
 
Manfred said:
...
Why not rather try and address the argument ...
Go ahead instead of making up all sorts of imagined contradictions...
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If Calvinism is true then I cannot do anything until such time as God meticulously determines me to...
The issue is why do you go against God's timing?
 
eternomade said:
Yes, she was loved by the King. It seems you are implying that anyone can approach the King, even if the King hates them?
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No, I’m saying that anyone can approach the King, but their life is in his hands alone. And the reaction of a human ruler is not to be compared with that of the King of Kings! Human Kings can be threatened, God has no such fear!

Doug
 
Our Lord's God said:
They seem to be arguing that you must do what they will rather than what God already willed and decreed. I guess their God must have also ordained them to create this confusion.
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There is only one God, and you need to repent of your belief in multiple gods and believe in the one true Gid, the creator of the heavens and the earth.

I've told you that before, haven't I?
 
fltom said:
These were Jesus words

John 12:32 (ESV) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Who is doing the drawing?

Who is he drawing?

Do you know how he draws?
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Is He saying He will draw every man without exception?

If that is what you believe, I can give you an excercise to do that will prove you are wrong.
 
PeanutGallery said:
If Calvinism is true then I cannot do anything until such time as God meticulously determines me to...
The issue is why do you go against God's timing?
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And you know now is not his timing because you like to pretend that you are sovereign and know what is in God's mind.
Try and respond to someone for once instead of projecting your shortcomings
 
PeanutGallery said:
If Calvinism is true then I cannot do anything until such time as God meticulously determines me to...
The issue is why do you go against God's timing?
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Since we do not know God's timing, how can we be "going against God's timing"?

Try thinking through your objections before you post.
 
TibiasDad said:
No, I’m saying that anyone can approach the King, but their life is in his hands alone. And the reaction of a human ruler is not to be compared with that of the King of Kings! Human Kings can be threatened, God has no such fear!

Doug
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Would you say anyone can approach Christ the King Boldly, the same as you and I can boldly approach the High Priest's Throne of Grace; but they can't?
 
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