You say--"with the destruction of the temple"?????

dberrie2020

Well-known member
We already have many times. The verse talks about a (singular) Jewish temple somewhere around the throne of God, at some point in time after the great tribulation. It’s not about Mormon temples. And no, it’s not describing Mormon temples. Nothing like them.

That's just denial. The description found in Revelation7:14-15 is a close physical description of the LDS temple.

It also puts a damper on any claim there is no need for a temple. It also quells the claims of those who claim we are the only temple now--as we are the temple of God.

All of which adds up to a problem for the critics here.

Denial won't solve that dilemma for the critics--but it's all they have left.

I don’t think you’re really interested in “engaging.” You only want to keep posting it.

Sour grapes.
 

Yitoz

Active member
It doesn't specifically identify the location--but it does describe it as a temple where saints served God, and were dressed in white robes.

Sounds a lot like an LDS temple to me, and I visit the temple often.
Ezekiel chapters 40-48 speak of a new temple to be built, but this one may be during the millennial reign of Jesus upon the earth when He restores .the kingdom to Israel. That is after the close of this present age of grace as indicated in Zech 14:16-21 when all the surviving peoples of the earth have to go up to Mt. Zion in Jerusalem during Sukkot/Tabernacles to worship Jesus on His throne there. Other than the Jewish temple revealed in both testaments, the temples that you are referring to are yet future, especially regarding the verses in Rev.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Ezekiel chapters 40-48 speak of a new temple to be built, but this one may be during the millennial reign of Jesus upon the earth when He restores .the kingdom to Israel. That is after the close of this present age of grace as indicated in Zech 14:16-21 when all the surviving peoples of the earth have to go up to Mt. Zion in Jerusalem during Sukkot/Tabernacles to worship Jesus on His throne there. Other than the Jewish temple revealed in both testaments, the temples that you are referring to are yet future, especially regarding the verses in Rev.

Some of the references may be future--but the question begs to be asked--why wouldn't the saints have the same pattern now--which are exhibited in the future, if they are future? If the temple is connected to the Lord's work--then what would prevent that work from being present now? Does it state where the temple will begin it's existence? If God's work is in the temple then, whenever that may be--then why not now? Certainly--the second coming is thought by many to be close. Will it be a continuance of work already in progress? It makes reason stare to believe otherwise, IMO.

The scriptures show the temple is still necessary to carry out God's work--which quells the claim of some of the critics here--- there is no more need for the temple. When mortality ends, and the Millennial Reign ends--there might not be a need for a temple then--but the temple is certainly connected to God's work until then.

The description in Rev7:14-15 is a direct pattern of LDS temple rites--and the LDS, the only church to have the temple which patterns that description, IMO. That one can show it is also a pattern of God in the future, or in some other place--does nothing to discredit it's existence today, wherever that may be, but only affirms it is the work of God--which is universal.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Some of the references may be future--but the question begs to be asked--why wouldn't the saints have the same pattern now--which are exhibited in the future, if they are future? If the temple is connected to the Lord's work--then what would prevent that work from being present now? Does it state where the temple will begin it's existence? If God's work is in the temple then, whenever that may be--then why not now? Certainly--the second coming is thought by many to be close. Will it be a continuance of work already in progress? It makes reason stare to believe otherwise, IMO.

The scriptures show the temple is still necessary to carry out God's work--which quells the claim of some of the critics here--- there is no more need for the temple. When mortality ends, and the Millennial Reign ends--there might not be a need for a temple then--but the temple is certainly connected to God's work until then.

The description in Rev7:14-15 is a direct pattern of LDS temple rites--and the LDS, the only church to have the temple which patterns that description, IMO. That one can show it is also a pattern of God in the future, or in some other place--does nothing to discredit it's existence today, wherever that may be, but only affirms it is the work of God--which is universal.
It says after the great tribulation.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
restore means to restore what was lost, though of course it’s new
That's what I just said. Your claim doesn't make any sense. We cannot be restored to something that we never had. We can't restore something we never lost.
i don’t have a narrative
Everyone has a narrative. Your narrative limits the number of people wearing these robes 144K (speaking from past posts).
haven’t said anyone should not have a church building …
It's pretty obvious that temples are not church buildings. But your argument, as I understand it, is about the robes. Our argument is that there will be innumerable hosts worshiping in the temple day and night wearing white. That doesn't fit your narrative. There are way too many people worshiping in a building that has the throne of God.

The point is, you're fixated, it appears, on the robes and my point your view doesn't fit the description of the temple described in Revelations or the people worshiping in it.
every single symbol is literal.
No. I don't think so. Symbolism is intended to relate an idea. It does not have to be literal. The problem is separating them. Literal events and objects can also be symbolic but it doesn't always work the other way around. Like Adam's rib. That was symbolic, not literal.
i don’t know much about your beliefs, admittedly so i can’t comment on the practices other than to say that my practice is just talking to God and listening Him. I’m a bit of a shut in of late so that’s what i do. I pray night and day His return.
Nor I yours. But I do remember your posts from earlier boards. I know, for example, that you believe that Adam and Eve had different bodies before the fall and God sewed them new bodies. Now, it appears that you are connecting the white robes to getting our bodies (whatever they were) back. But I'm confused, how is that both symbolic and literal? (rhetorically question, no need to answer). Of course, we never had those bodies, only Adam and Eve had them as they were the only ones who supposedly had these white robes. The rest of us were born in these skins that God sewed to cover Adam and Eve's nakedness. So, how are we going to be restored to something we never had?

I've already argued how completely unacceptable it is not to have the body I have now. I like the body I have now and I don't want to wake up after death in some other body that I've never seen.

I didn't know that you viewed these white robes as symbolic of getting a body we've never seen. That was new to me.
i don’t attend any group. I just stay with God all I can. and I listen to Him
Even if you have a religion of one, it's still a religion. You're not alone. We all do that the best we can, even our critics do that or try to anyway. But we have the Bible, within it we can find patterns of God's work. Those patterns match those found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I haven't found those patterns in any other church.

One of those patterns is the temple as viewed by John in Revelations. We actually do wear all white and we actually do worship in them day and night. They are not a once-a-week 1 hour service. They are open all the time day and night.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
That's what I just said. Your claim doesn't make any sense. We cannot be restored to something that we never had. We can't restore something we never lost.

Everyone has a narrative. Your narrative limits the number of people wearing these robes 144K (speaking from past posts).

It's pretty obvious that temples are not church buildings. But your argument, as I understand it, is about the robes. Our argument is that there will be innumerable hosts worshiping in the temple day and night wearing white. That doesn't fit your narrative. There are way too many people worshiping in a building that has the throne of God.

The point is, you're fixated, it appears, on the robes and my point your view doesn't fit the description of the temple described in Revelations or the people worshiping in it.

No. I don't think so. Symbolism is intended to relate an idea. It does not have to be literal. The problem is separating them. Literal events and objects can also be symbolic but it doesn't always work the other way around. Like Adam's rib. That was symbolic, not literal.

Nor I yours. But I do remember your posts from earlier boards. I know, for example, that you believe that Adam and Eve had different bodies before the fall and God sewed them new bodies. Now, it appears that you are connecting the white robes to getting our bodies (whatever they were) back. But I'm confused, how is that both symbolic and literal? (rhetorically question, no need to answer). Of course, we never had those bodies, only Adam and Eve had them as they were the only ones who supposedly had these white robes. The rest of us were born in these skins that God sewed to cover Adam and Eve's nakedness. So, how are we going to be restored to something we never had?

I've already argued how completely unacceptable it is not to have the body I have now. I like the body I have now and I don't want to wake up after death in some other body that I've never seen.

I didn't know that you viewed these white robes as symbolic of getting a body we've never seen. That was new to me.

Even if you have a religion of one, it's still a religion. You're not alone. We all do that the best we can, even our critics do that or try to anyway. But we have the Bible, within it we can find patterns of God's work. Those patterns match those found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I haven't found those patterns in any other church.

One of those patterns is the temple as viewed by John in Revelations. We actually do wear all white and we actually do worship in them day and night. They are not a once-a-week 1 hour service. They are open all the time day and night.
How do you think you would get that same body back when it will be gone, and you don’t believe God can create something out of nothing?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
It says after the great tribulation.

Where do we find "after the great tribulation" here?

Revelation 11:1-2---King James Version
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Where do we find "after the great tribulation" here?

Revelation 11:1-2---King James Version
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 7:14 “I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 For this reason they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.”

Youve posted that over and over. I’ve pointed out to you many times that it says after the great tribulation. Even mormonism doesn’t believe that has happened yet. You’re spamming your own opinions here, trying to force some justification for Mormon temples.
 

Erundur

Active member
Youve posted that over and over. I’ve pointed out to you many times that it says after the great tribulation.
It depends on your translation. It seems to me that newer translations have added "the" in there, while older translations do not say that. The KJV says "out of great tribulation."
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
It depends on your translation. It seems to me that newer translations have added "the" in there, while older translations do not say that. The KJV says "out of great tribulation."
It really doesn’t make any difference because Revelation is where Mormons get their belief in the 7 year tribulation that is supposed to come before the millennium. And that hasn’t started yet. That’s what the whole book is talking about… signs of the times. It’s a favorite topic in mormonism and is analyzed to a great extent. There is no mistaking the period of tribulation as the great tribulation. Unless you’re trying to be disingenuous and deceive people about Mormon beliefs to promote your agenda.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
So, once again the mormons preach exclusion....if you are not a mormon, you don't get to go to a temple and wear a white robe.

So far only mormons can baptize and wear white robes in a temple.

Mormons ..... and i was baptized into it

But was never of it.

Wiil never say anyone can be.

They are the "true church" .....

Welcome to not being, on the Mormon paradigm.

They do preach a doctrine of exclusion / for their own "in' thingy. .

I remember growing up ........ and going to school. I complained to my mother, no one wants to talk to me. (seemed like I was being ostracized)

My mothers reply was that "they are taught that".

She was raised Mormon ...... but quit going to church.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
I think you're confusing us with the Evangelicals.
Not hardly. Joseph Smith was obsessed with signs of the times. It’s all over the D&C, Book of Mormon. Hundreds of books have been written about it by church leaders and researchers. Nibley, Skausen. My dad even researched and wrote about it.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
That's what I just said. Your claim doesn't make any sense. We cannot be restored to something that we never had. We can't restore something we never lost.
we lost paradise and the nature of paradise…
and here we are.
Everyone has a narrative. Your narrative limits the number of people wearing these robes 144K (speaking from past posts).
the 144k is not limited to that number. why would they have to wear those robes?
It's pretty obvious that temples are not church buildings.
okay.
But your argument, as I understand it, is about the robes. Our argument is that there will be innumerable hosts worshiping in the temple day and night wearing white.

i don’t think the exact clothes souls may wear is all so important compared to the 144k getting to paradise soon .

who do you mean by hosts?

That doesn't fit your narrative. There are way too many people worshiping in a building that has the throne of God.
It won’t be a ‘building‘ as we know it here made of matter… since this type of perishable flesh reality is not found in heaven.
The point is, you're fixated, it appears, on the robes
it was simply that i saw the thread and that the robe theme popped up… and I understand it to be the type of body in His image in paradise that we will be restored to
and my point your view doesn't fit the description of the temple described in Revelations or the people worshiping in it.
It depends on how you read. I don’t read revelation to be only about this material reality but often about the other reality , be that past present and future. context would determine how to interpret a description.
No. I don't think so. Symbolism is intended to relate an idea. It does not have to be literal.

symbols represent something and are not pure abstractions.
The problem is separating them. Literal events and objects can also be symbolic but it doesn't always work the other way around. Like Adam's rib. That was symbolic, not literal.

actually it’s literal but a bit long to exegete and very off topic to this forum.
Adam and Eve had different bodies before the fall
man definitely had a different body before the fall and not a chimera. there was no death.
Now, it appears that you are connecting the white robes to getting our bodies (whatever they were) back.

yes, i said that they represent the glorified nature.

But I'm confused, how is that both symbolic and literal?
because man literally was in His image and literally had such a gorgeous original nature and then entered death.
(rhetorically question, no need to answer). Of course, we never had those bodies, only Adam and Eve had them as they were the only ones who supposedly had these white robes.

perhaps.

why don’t you think we had them?


The rest of us were born in these skins that God sewed to cover Adam and Eve's nakedness. So, how are we going to be restored to something we never had?
I replied already to this though not fully.
I've already argued how completely unacceptable it is not to have the body I have now. I like the body I have now and I don't want to wake up after death in some other body that I've never seen.
who said it would be entirely unrecognizable? after all christ’s resurrection body was finally recognized… though not entirely the same (lacking now any corrupt elements of mortal flesh)
I didn't know that you viewed these white robes as symbolic of getting a body we've never seen.
they are symbolic of the glorified body.. regardless of the italic part.
Even if you have a religion of one, it's still a religion.
okay.. I do feel grateful just to meet Him.
You're not alone. We all do that the best we can, even our critics do that or try to anyway.
But I really am alone except for God. i’m not criticizing you.. i do recognize how incredibly limited I am (being a human being) and I pray for all here that He brings us home and repairs us so that we are whole again instead of this suffering, illness and death. I lost interest in judging others a long time ago and it’s not my job to anyway…
But we have the Bible, within it we can find patterns of God's work. Those patterns match those found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I haven't found those patterns in any other church.

One of those patterns is the temple as viewed by John in Revelations. We actually do wear all white and we actually do worship in them day and night. They are not a once-a-week 1 hour service. They are open all the time day and night.
i believe the types and shadows have as their most urgent and important meaning the transcendent context, and reference, not this current earth but the other reality. What can be more urgent than going home to paradise? Nothing.

bible commentaries over the centuries, have shifted the context of these archetypes (thus changing the meaning) to this earth.
 
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