Your atheism ends at time of death. No atheeists in hell

[Whatsisface]

Then I'd say you weren't paying attention.

But you've also said that the big bang was started by two electrons or atoms colliding, which shows that your general perception isn't very sharp.

God exists...
The bible starts with the phrase

In the beginning God.....

It's not an argument. It doesn't go through 10,000 explanations of why.

It makes a simple statement of fact.

Nothing of what you've written after this shows it as fact.

You mention some examples of evidences, but they're really poor evidences.

You'll get exactly what you want.
An eternity separated from God.

This is rather daft.

 

[The Pixie]

Are you able to put their arguments into your own words? I guess not.

You don't pay much attention to this whole thing do you?

We're told to give a reason for the hope that lives within US.

Our Hope in Christ is indeed a common hope/faith. But it's perceived by each of us differently, when we start, and as we gain a better understanding of the bible, it becomes more advanced.

So, why would I have their arguments?
Especially when the bible is so completely clear about this.

Christ the Power and Wisdom of God​

(cf. Is. 29:14 )
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Glory Only in the Lord​

26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the LORD.”

Christ Crucified​

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

Spiritual Wisdom​

6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


God's Wisdom is Jesus. As we read in John 1.
Jesus is the Logos of God.

He is epitomized as wisdom in the bible.

Thanks for confirming that you are unable to put their arguments into your own words.

 

[SteveB]

But you've also said that the big bang was started by two electrons or atoms colliding, which shows that your general perception isn't very sharp.

I'm working with your wording, so you're going to have to do better than this.

Nothing of what you've written after this shows it as fact.

Actually, it does.
But as you're justifying your unbelief I'd say that it's actually you who've demonstrated it factual.

You mention some examples of evidences, but they're really poor evidences.

Then I'm thinking that you should definitely wait until your dead. That way you can have all the facts you wanted.

Granted, by then it'll be too late to do anything about it and you'll be stuck forever.

This is rather daft.

Sounds like you have yet again proven the bible true.

The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, and the power of God to salvation for all who believe.

You should pay closer attention to what you have said.

 

[SteveB]

Thanks for confirming that you are unable to put their arguments into your own words.

Why did I need to?
Don't you already know them?

And if so, then what do you think that hearing the same thing all over again, by another person is going to achieve?

Seems like you're not actually interested in knowing the truth.

Otherwise, you would have already turned to YHVH from your sin and placed your trust in Jesus.

 

[The Pixie]

Why did I need to?

To show that you have actually thought about this.

If all you can do is tell me to read books and parrot Bible verses, it really just confirms that you just believe what you are told to believe.

 

[Whatsisface]

Sounds like you have yet again proven the bible true.

The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, and the power of God to salvation for all who believe.

You need to take a logic class. Just because the Bible says this doesn't mean it's true.

 

[SteveB]

To show that you have actually thought about this.

?
It seems to me that you want me to think about it because you're too afraid to do anything with the gospel of Jesus.
As stated several hundred times before, I've been following Jesus since 1977.
Longer than most of these people whose arguments you're rejecting.
So, if you're refusing to think about it, why on earth would you actually think that your cowardice is my problem?

If all you can do is tell me to read books and parrot Bible verses, it really just confirms that you just believe what you are told to believe.

Actually, I've repeatedly asked you to do what Jesus said, and then he said that he and his Father will come and make their home with you.

But, it seems like you don't actually want to spend your life here on earth with God as your Father and Jesus as your brother, Savior and Lord.

There is no argument that can force you to choose what you don't want.

God is not going to force you to believe him. Faith in Jesus doesn't work like that.

You either believe him or not.

As Jesus came to save sinners, the primary problem here is your need to recognize your state before God.

If you really don't want to know, then you won't.

Choose your external destination. Then go live accordingly.

 

[SteveB]

You need to take a logic class. Just because the Bible says this doesn't mean it's true.

And yet your actions provide the proof.

I.e., just because you refuse to believe Jesus doesn't mean that the bible is not true.

 

[Whatsisface]

And yet your actions provide the proof.

I.e., just because you refuse to believe Jesus doesn't mean that the bible is not true.

Yeah, you need some help alright.

 

[The Pixie]

It seems to me that you want me to think about it because you're too afraid to do anything with the gospel of Jesus.
As stated several hundred times before, I've been following Jesus since 1977.
Longer than most of these people whose arguments you're rejecting.
So, if you're refusing to think about it, why on earth would you actually think that your cowardice is my problem?

I think our problem is that you have no clue why you think Christianity is true.

Actually, I've repeatedly asked you to do what Jesus said, and then he said that he and his Father will come and make their home with you.

And I have repeatedly pointed out that I cannot believe something I do not think is true, and then I ask you to say why you think the Bible is true, and you either evade or spout Bible verses, assuming that the Bible is true.

As Jesus came to save sinners, the primary problem here is your need to recognize your state before God.

No, Steve, the issues here are that (1) I do not think it is true; and (2) you can offer no reason why I should think it is true that does not assume it is true.

 

[SteveB]

Yeah, you need some help alright.

?
Why yes!?

Yes I do!!!!!!!?????

This is exactly why I continue talking to Jesus!

This is exactly why I do what the bible says.

Pro 3:5-8 WEB 5 Trust in Yahweh with all your heart, and don’t lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. 7 Don’t be wise in your own eyes. Fear Yahweh, and depart from evil. 8 It will be health to your body, and nourishment to your bones.

 

[SteveB]

I think our problem is that you have no clue why you think Christianity is true.

?
?

I think it's true because I asked YHVH if he's real, and if Jesus is real or just another pile of religious bs.

He responded. And I've spent the past 45+ years reading, learning, and applying what the bible says to do, and YHVH continues to demonstrate himself real and knowable.

So, it's not that I'm not explaining why I believe YHVH.

It's quite clear to me that you're not actually paying attention!

And I have repeatedly pointed out that I cannot believe something I do not think is true, and then I ask you to say why you think the Bible is true, and you either evade or spout Bible verses, assuming that the Bible is true.

Well, once again you're doing a great job of demonstrating your dedication to your deliberate and willful ignorance.

It's known as experience Pixie!

But, since you're dedicating yourself to stupidity, here's evidence that God is real.
He stamped a turtle's shell to show that he made the turtle.

Is a Photograph of the So-Called 'God Turtle' Real?

While instances of pareidolia may be open to interpretation, the authenticity of this photograph is not.

www.snopes.com

No, Steve, the issues here are that (1) I do not think it is true;

Sounds like a personal problem.
One that really doesn't bother me.
If you don't actually want to know the truth, then do nothing. You'll live out whatever life you have remaining, and then one day die.
Since you didn't want to know, God will let you go into eternity, separated from him.

If you actually do want to know the truth, then engage him on his terms. He's made it quite clear that you will find him and he will make himself knowable to you.

The choice is entirely yours.

and (2) you can offer no reason why I should think it is true that does not assume it is true.

Again, you demonstrate that you're not paying attention.
I've repeatedly stated why I believe it's true.

I think that the problem here is that you're looking for something that will literally force you to believe. Something like an arm wrestling match, or a wrestling match that you will lose, and have to yield.

God isn't going to beat you into submission, where you're forced to yield!

He's going to treat you as an adult.
He'll give you the invitation and it's up to you to decide whether or not you want to know him.

It's that simple!

 

[Whatsisface]

?
Why yes!?

Yes I do!!!!!!!?????

This is exactly why I continue talking to Jesus!

This is exactly why I do what the bible says.

Pro 3:5-8 WEB 5 Trust in Yahweh with all your heart, and don’t lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. 7 Don’t be wise in your own eyes. Fear Yahweh, and depart from evil. 8 It will be health to your body, and nourishment to your bones.

What's important here isn't about whether God exists or not, the issue here is about you being rational, or rather irrational in your responses.

Most atheists here try to be reasonable in what they say, they try to take into account what's said and make points accordingly. You do not do this, it's as if you don't have the wherewithal to reply reasonably and rationally.

I can guarantee that you won't pause for a second and ask yourself, has he got a point. You will just be as unreasonable as usual and avoid the issue. It's why in all the years you've been here, you've got nowhere. Do you honestly think you've persuaded any atheist here to Christ? No, you haven't. You should be asking yourself why.

 

[SteveB]

What's important here isn't about whether God exists or not, the issue here is about you being rational, or rather irrational in your responses.

Hope that works out for you. By the sound of it, you're losing your grasp on reality.

Most atheists here try to be reasonable in what they say, they try to take into account what's said and make points accordingly. You do not do this, it's as if you don't have the wherewithal to reply reasonably and rationally.

Just because you think your beliefs are reasonable, it doesn't mean that they actually are.

God says that the fool says in his heart that there is no God.

I'm not concerned anymore if you think I'm being reasonable.
You've repeatedly made it clear that biblical truth is foolishness to you.
YHVH actually agrees.
It's foolishness to those who are perishing.
So, if you actually think that it's foolishness, then that's definitive proof that you are perishing, and therefore unreasonable.

I can guarantee that you won't pause for a second and ask yourself, has he got a point.

I just did.
To those who are perishing, your point is that I am being unreasonable.

You really should read the bible.
You have been repeatedly described throughout its pages.
Your unbelief isn't new.
Your eternal separation from God will be your own, should you refuse to follow Jesus.

You will just be as unreasonable as usual and avoid the issue.

The issue is quite simple.
Is your ego so fragile that you are unable to engage YHVH?

It's why in all the years you've been here, you've got nowhere.

?????

You're the one who doesn't understand the dynamics taking place here.
All I have to do is to present the truth of Jesus.
I've been doing this for the past 3595 days now.

Again..... you really need to read the bible.

As Paul said to the Corinthians...

I plant, another waters, but God gives the increase.

Jesus said that one plants and another harvests.

It's the nature of farming. And the gospel of Jesus is a farming endeavor.

God's Word is the seed. The preacher is the seed broadcaster/planter.
There's a watering season, where the growing season occurs, and then a harvest.

Depending on your age, I may well be gone by the time you pass from this life to the next.

So, another will harvest.

This is all described in the bible.

Do you honestly think you've persuaded any atheist here to Christ? No, you haven't. You should be asking yourself why.

I already know why.

Not my job nor my problem.

YHVH's word will achieve the purpose for which he gave it.

Isa 55:8-11 WEB 8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways,” says Yahweh. 9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain comes down and the snow from the sky, and doesn’t return there, but waters the earth, and makes it grow and bud, and gives seed to the sower and bread to the eater; 11 so is my word that goes out of my mouth: it will not return to me void, but it will accomplish that which I please, and it will prosper in the thing I sent it to do.

Seriously WiF!

Read the bible!
This is all detailed in it.

 

[Whatsisface]

Hope that works out for you. By the sound of it, you're losing your grasp on reality.

Just because you think your beliefs are reasonable, it doesn't mean that they actually are.

God says that the fool says in his heart that there is no God.

I'm not concerned anymore if you think I'm being reasonable.
You've repeatedly made it clear that biblical truth is foolishness to you.
YHVH actually agrees.
It's foolishness to those who are perishing.
So, if you actually think that it's foolishness, then that's definitive proof that you are perishing, and therefore unreasonable.




I just did.
To those who are perishing, your point is that I am being unreasonable.

You really should read the bible.
You have been repeatedly described throughout its pages.
Your unbelief isn't new.
Your eternal separation from God will be your own, should you refuse to follow Jesus.




The issue is quite simple.
Is your ego so fragile that you are unable to engage YHVH?



?????

You're the one who doesn't understand the dynamics taking place here.
All I have to do is to present the truth of Jesus.
I've been doing this for the past 3595 days now.

Again..... you really need to read the bible.

As Paul said to the Corinthians...

I plant, another waters, but God gives the increase.

Jesus said that one plants and another harvests.

It's the nature of farming. And the gospel of Jesus is a farming endeavor.

God's Word is the seed. The preacher is the seed broadcaster/planter.
There's a watering season, where the growing season occurs, and then a harvest.

Depending on your age, I may well be gone by the time you pass from this life to the next.

So, another will harvest.

This is all described in the bible.


I already know why.

Not my job nor my problem.

YHVH's word will achieve the purpose for which he gave it.

Isa 55:8-11 WEB 8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways,” says Yahweh. 9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain comes down and the snow from the sky, and doesn’t return there, but waters the earth, and makes it grow and bud, and gives seed to the sower and bread to the eater; 11 so is my word that goes out of my mouth: it will not return to me void, but it will accomplish that which I please, and it will prosper in the thing I sent it to do.

Seriously WiF!

Read the bible!
This is all detailed in it.

Frankly, I can't be bothered to wade through this pile of nonsense.

 

[docphin5]

I appreciate you agreeing with my comment about just confirming what you want to be true, but I've got some problems with the sentence I've put in bold above that you wrote.

1. Can you offer a single specific example of an atheist who shows that he/she doesn't want to believe that God exists, that would be the best (or one of the best) examples, in your opinion? Either a name or a YouTube or a post/thread or book or article?

You are naive if you think every atheist wants to believe in god.

I think most atheists just like most christians have already made their mind up what they choose to believe. It is like herd mentality or group-think. Once one joins the herd then the individual mind no longer thinks for itself. Something is thought to be true because the group one belongs to says it is true. Maybe its an evolutionary survival mechanism, safety in numbers kind of thing, I don’t know.

Anyways, once submitted to group-think people no longer critically think or no longer challenge their own conclusion (with few exceptions). Atheistic group-think no longer wants to believe in God so they only look for information that validates their conclusions. Christian group-think no longer wants truth about God so they only look for information that validates their conclusions. It is why their system of theology is filled with contradictions. Exceptions to group-think are rare.

2. The implied critique of the atheist who looks out his window, doesn't see God, and claims he cannot exist, has two problems:

(1) Most atheists I see online have absorbed the point that you don't need to make a positive claim that some god cannot exist, but merely to say that others haven't made a case for any god, so the atheist doesn't believe in the existence of any god.

Asking for reason or evidence before believing is prudent and rational. I agree with this and I would not expect anyone to do otherwise.

(2) Ultimately, the sentence in bold is merely a critique of how well the atheist has gathered evidence, or what should be considered evidence. That's just a question of skill within a proper epistemology, which is an entirely different problem from making unfalsifiable claims. Do you agree that that distinction is relevant/significant?

Right, in that bolded sentence I was criticizing those less skilled atheists who use ONLY their senses to decide if God exists rather than their higher reason. There are some atheists with more skill at assessing logical inferences for a divine influence.

I think your post (#202) above was spot-on. Critical thinking is necessary to solve complex problems. Whereas, Group-think leads everyone over a cliff.

 

[docphin5]

I'm a former non-Christian theist. I've been exposed to concepts of God(s) of many varieties, and I've looked for most of them - rather than the "white swan". I haven't found a reasonable justification to believe that any of them exists.

Forgive me for condescending to analyze what you said but maybe because you are looking for God outside of yourself that you cannot find him. I am not saying we are the ultimate creator but instead that the ultimate creator is manifest through us. We are the son of God that is being produced. And we experience the creator, the divine mind, the all-father, the source of all things, through the higher reason, moral consciousness, the divine spirit, developing in us, growing in us, arising in our species. Is not the essence of this following passage of scripture suggesting that the personal God is manifest by what we do for each other?


“Then the righteous will answer him, saying,

‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ (Matthew 25:37)

This from GRS Mead,
”The [Christian] theist contends that men must have something to lean on, and that to take away the [external] Personality of Deity would be to destroy the hope of the Christian world. But why so ? Is there not a Christ in every man to lean upon ? Nay, is not the Christ the very Man himself, if he would but know Himself? What more is requisite?”

Said another way by Paul,
”we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.” (Eph 4:15)

and here,

“Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in YOU?” (2 cor 13:5)

 

[The Pixie]

?
?

I think it's true because I asked YHVH if he's real, and if Jesus is real or just another pile of religious bs.

He responded. And I've spent the past 45+ years reading, learning, and applying what the bible says to do, and YHVH continues to demonstrate himself real and knowable.
...

Did you ask Allah if he is real? Did you ask Vishnu if he is real?

If not - and I feel pretty sure you did not - then why not? If you can answer that, at least to yourself, you may realise why I have not asked YHVH why he is real.

 

[Gus Bovona]

You are naive if you think every atheist wants to believe in god.

I think most atheists just like most christians have already made their mind up what they choose to believe. It is like herd mentality or group-think. Once one joins the herd then the individual mind no longer thinks for itself. Something is thought to be true because the group one belongs to says it is true. Maybe its an evolutionary survival mechanism, safety in numbers kind of thing, I don’t know.

Anyways, once submitted to group-think people no longer critically think or no longer challenge their own conclusion (with few exceptions). Atheistic group-think no longer wants to believe in God so they only look for information that validates their conclusions. Christian group-think no longer wants truth about God so they only look for information that validates their conclusions. It is why their system of theology is filled with contradictions. Exceptions to group-think are rare.

I'm looking for an example of what you're talking about. Do you have an example?

 

[SteveB]

Frankly, I can't be bothered to wade through this pile of nonsense.

Further demonstrating your refusal to learn.

Apparently atheism is your justification to remain ignorant.

Which makes me wonder why you claim to want to be able to rightly know what the bible says about Jesus.

So much for education.