Your explainations please

Thistle

Well-known member
Hello

I direct your Attention to
Acts 10:44-48

Why does Peter still baptize Cornelius with water after he receives the Holy spirit?

I am interested in reading the different takes.
Wow! That is a really insightful and pertinent question. It uncovers what I believe to be one of the really misunderstood uses of language in this whole baptism question. I'll give you my view, and tell you right up front it you may may not hear it from anyone else. The term "baptism of the Holy Spirit" applies to your citation as well as Acts 2:1–4 and the baptism of Jesus.

Apart from those three instances it has never happened before or since. Baptism of the Holy Spirit BHS should not be confused with what we might call Spirit baptism as in first Corinthians 12:13. In BHS the word baptism is being used analogically. In the same way they convert is being overwhelmed with water in the baptism ceremony the object of BHS is being overwhelmed by a visible manifestation of God's power to mark the occasion as a principal dividing point in divine history.

BHS has a redemptive purpose, but it is not the occasion of redemption. Daniel 9:27 talks about the 70th week of years where the Messiah will "confirm a covenant with many." And goes on to say " but in the middle of that seven he will put an end to sacrifice and offerings."

My view is the Jesus baptism (a baptism of the Holy Spirit) marks the beginning of the 70th week, Pentecost 3 1/2 years later marks the middle and ending the sacrificial system, and the house of Cornelius exactly 3 1/2 years later marks the admitting of the Gentiles into the church and the end of the 70th week.

So each of these examples of BHS are examples of God putting his imprint on particular moment in time where he overwhelms someone with power from on high which is visible to others to announce the divine significance of these three important moments.

Returning again to my brief mention of first Corinthians 12:13, Spirit Baptism is something that happens in the baptism ceremony. Which is to say that we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit in the indwelling sense, in other words the Holy Spirit changes his mailing address to our heart.

So in Acts 10 BHS occurred in versus 45 and 46 spirit baptism however did not happen until verse 48 as part and parcel of literal Christian baptism.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Acts 10:
39 "As for us, we are witnesses of everything he did, both in the Judean countryside j

40 but and in Yerushalayim. They did away with him by hanging him on a stake;God raised him up on the third day and let him be seen,

41 not by all the people, but by witnesses God had previously chosen, that is, by us, who ate and drank with him after he had risen again from the dead.

42 "Then he commanded us to proclaim and attest to the Jewish people that this man has been appointed by God to judge the living and the dead.

43 All the prophets bear witness to him, that everyone who puts his trust in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

44 Kefa was still saying these things when the Ruach HaKodesh fell on all who were hearing the message.

45 All the believers from the Circumcision faction who had accompanied Kefa were amazed that the gift of the Ruach HaKodesh was also being poured out

46 on the Goyim, for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Kefa's response was,

47 "Is anyone prepared to prohibit these people from being immersed in water? After all, they have received the Ruach HaKodesh, just as we did."

48 And he ordered that they be immersed in the name of Yeshua the Messiah. Then they asked Kefa to stay on with them for a few days. So he gave orders for them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

If you do like the above or disagree with the message, then take it up with the author..
 

Thistle

Well-known member
If you do like the above or disagree with the message, then take it up with the author..
It's not true that this text is self interpreting. The text is never controversial. It's the uninspired interpretations (and all interpretations are uninspired) that introduced controversy.
 

rossh

Well-known member
It's not true that this text is self interpreting. The text is never controversial. It's the uninspired interpretations (and all interpretations are uninspired) that introduced controversy.
Sorry, but I am NOT the Author of Scriptures.... I pray for guidance and help from God and then read His Holy Word..

Gen 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 The earth was unformed and void, darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the surface of the water.

Is this the writings of Moses ? Well,, Moses was raised as an Egyptian and schooled as one. Moses was therefore had to educated enough, for God to use his skills so as to write, as God Spoke and or Inspired him, to write.
I do not see Moses debating with God over issues being written and or Stated in the Bible, do you ?
Moses is said to have written the 5 Books back around 1442 BC.. Since than more Books have been written. People back then had no scientific education as we do today..

One important point people in those days had NO idea about rockets to the Moon, or Brain Surgery or automobiles and such.. So the warnings about the future form those old days about the future had to be spoken of in the languages of the past.. Agreed ?
 

rossh

Well-known member
It's not true that this text is self interpreting. The text is never controversial. It's the uninspired interpretations (and all interpretations are uninspired) that introduced controversy.
what in earth do you mean by that,,, " Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. " Sounds like YOU are on another planet somewhere ?
Well are you trying to sell us the notion that Moses and such knew how to travel to the Moon and how to do heart transplants as well ?
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Sorry, but I am NOT the Author of Scriptures.... I pray for guidance and help from God and then read His Holy Word..

Gen 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 The earth was unformed and void, darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the surface of the water.

Is this the writings of Moses ? Well,, Moses was raised as an Egyptian and schooled as one. Moses was therefore had to educated enough, for God to use his skills so as to write, as God Spoke and or Inspired him, to write.
I do not see Moses debating with God over issues being written and or Stated in the Bible, do you ?
Moses is said to have written the 5 Books back around 1442 BC.. Since than more Books have been written. People back then had no scientific education as we do today..

One important point people in those days had NO idea about rockets to the Moon, or Brain Surgery or automobiles and such.. So the warnings about the future form those old days about the future had to be spoken of in the languages of the past.. Agreed ?
I wouldn't dispute that. Sometimes I have difficulty interpreting the language that we use today. I was reading on one of these forms somebody quoted the words "let's go Brandon" and I had to Google that character string to figure out what those words meant colloquially. Further complicate that by removing words perhaps as many as 3000 years from their original intended audience, and we have to acknowledge that the opportunity for misinterpretation does present itself.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
what in earth do you mean by that,,,
I mean that until somebody explains to me how they interpret the passages of scripture all we have is that presumably we both believe the passage correctly interpreted.
" Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. " Sounds like YOU are on another planet somewhere ?
I don't understand your comment. The doctrine that God created the universe is the first doctrine that everyone has to agree on, because without it none of the other doctrines make any sense. It is in the doctrine of creation that God's sovereignty is established, without which we can't anchor the doctrine of his judgment, without which we can't anchor the doctrine of redemption. So that's where I am on the issue of creation. Now what does your comment mean?
Well are you trying to sell us the notion that Moses and such knew how to travel to the Moon and how to do heart transplants as well ?
No. I wouldn't presume to tell you what Moses did or didn't know no beyond what he wrote.
 

rossh

Well-known member
I mean that until somebody explains to me how they interpret the passages of scripture all we have is that presumably we both believe the passage correctly interpreted.

I don't understand your comment. The doctrine that God created the universe is the first doctrine that everyone has to agree on, because without it none of the other doctrines make any sense. It is in the doctrine of creation that God's sovereignty is established, without which we can't anchor the doctrine of his judgment, without which we can't anchor the doctrine of redemption. So that's where I am on the issue of creation. Now what does your comment mean?

No. I wouldn't presume to tell you what Moses did or didn't know no beyond what he wrote.
When we read Scripture we need to understand that the bible is like a Letter from God to us, telling us that He loves us all and how we can come to Him.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. ( do we have to be astronomers to understand this ? NO! ) did Moses debate with God about this " creation " issue ? NO! When Moses wrote this, the people back then knew nothing about physics, per se.. nor Brain Surgery either, nor about Nuclear Aircraft Carriers and such.. The Bible " language " had to be a bit simple.. Our perspective now, today, is very scientific unlike way back then. The background is Gods love for all mankind and our salvation ..
However we do need to re-read certain passages and try to understand what a certain chapter is about and or what a certain Book is all about, ask God for help...
 

rossh

Well-known member
I wouldn't dispute that. Sometimes I have difficulty interpreting the language that we use today. I was reading on one of these forms somebody quoted the words "let's go Brandon" and I had to Google that character string to figure out what those words meant colloquially. Further complicate that by removing words perhaps as many as 3000 years from their original intended audience, and we have to acknowledge that the opportunity for misinterpretation does present itself.
Yes indeed, Amen to that.. It got to a stage where people were burned to death to help them get into Heaven sic! They confessed after weeks/days of torture and, that made it all OK ??
Yes there right now, as you know, a great deal of misinterpretation !! " Hear Say! " is rife.. in many cases.. oh well we can only try to get people to read and to re-read passages and or chapters until they get the message of Scripture. Testament is a statement about promises... The Jews/Hebrew did not fulfill their obligations and paid the penalties. How ever, God is still willing to make all of His promises good!
 

rossh

Well-known member
Wow! That is a really insightful and pertinent question. It uncovers what I believe to be one of the really misunderstood uses of language in this whole baptism question. I'll give you my view, and tell you right up front it you may may not hear it from anyone else. The term "baptism of the Holy Spirit" applies to your citation as well as Acts 2:1–4 and the baptism of Jesus.

Apart from those three instances it has never happened before or since. Baptism of the Holy Spirit BHS should not be confused with what we might call Spirit baptism as in first Corinthians 12:13. In BHS the word baptism is being used analogically. In the same way they convert is being overwhelmed with water in the baptism ceremony the object of BHS is being overwhelmed by a visible manifestation of God's power to mark the occasion as a principal dividing point in divine history.

BHS has a redemptive purpose, but it is not the occasion of redemption. Daniel 9:27 talks about the 70th week of years where the Messiah will "confirm a covenant with many." And goes on to say " but in the middle of that seven he will put an end to sacrifice and offerings."

My view is the Jesus baptism (a baptism of the Holy Spirit) marks the beginning of the 70th week, Pentecost 3 1/2 years later marks the middle and ending the sacrificial system, and the house of Cornelius exactly 3 1/2 years later marks the admitting of the Gentiles into the church and the end of the 70th week.

So each of these examples of BHS are examples of God putting his imprint on particular moment in time where he overwhelms someone with power from on high which is visible to others to announce the divine significance of these three important moments.

Returning again to my brief mention of first Corinthians 12:13, Spirit Baptism is something that happens in the baptism ceremony. Which is to say that we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit in the indwelling sense, in other words the Holy Spirit changes his mailing address to our heart.

So in Acts 10 BHS occurred in versus 45 and 46 spirit baptism however did not happen until verse 48 as part and parcel of literal Christian baptism.
I believe that refers to " spiritual " baptism, and not " Spirit " ? we do not get baptized for the heck of it, but because we truly believe.. well that is my thoughts on that anyway..
 

Thistle

Well-known member
When we read Scripture we need to understand that the bible is like a Letter from God to us, telling us that He loves us all and how we can come to Him.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. ( do we have to be astronomers to understand this ? NO! ) did Moses debate with God about this " creation " issue ? NO! When Moses wrote this, the people back then knew nothing about physics, per se.. nor Brain Surgery either, nor about Nuclear Aircraft Carriers and such.. The Bible " language " had to be a bit simple.. Our perspective now, today, is very scientific unlike way back then. The background is Gods love for all mankind and our salvation ..
However we do need to re-read certain passages and try to understand what a certain chapter is about and or what a certain Book is all about, ask God for help...
I'm not especially interested and how God created, I'm more interested in that God created. If my vocation had more to do with natural sciences and there were certain Scientific theory is that I thought were beyond debate then that might figure more prominently in my thinking. As it is the theological question is the one that I think is important. I think the Bible addresses the theological question completely adequately to my mind. I have read a number of apologetic books about creation from a variety of perspectives so I can discuss various apologetic approaches to creation but that's less important to me than simply excepting the theological arguments contained in Scripture.
 

rossh

Well-known member
I'm not especially interested and how God created, I'm more interested in that God created. If my vocation had more to do with natural sciences and there were certain Scientific theory is that I thought were beyond debate then that might figure more prominently in my thinking. As it is the theological question is the one that I think is important. I think the Bible addresses the theological question completely adequately to my mind. I have read a number of apologetic books about creation from a variety of perspectives so I can discuss various apologetic approaches to creation but that's less important to me than simply excepting the theological arguments contained in Scripture.
Well of course, but you ,have missed my point.. The Hebrews/Israel got the Bible form Moses. He was of course very learned, being the son of Pharaoh's Daughter he would have had a great education... ? How ever back then, regarding the future and the prophecies of distant times as in today now, God could not use scientific terms nor speak of a " Harrier Jump Jet " per se, right ?
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Well of course, but you ,have missed my point.. The Hebrews/Israel got the Bible form Moses.
Of course Job is much older than that, but I take your point.
He was of course very learned, being the son of Pharaoh's Daughter he would have had a great education... ? How ever back then, regarding the future and the prophecies of distant times as in today now, God could not use scientific terms nor speak of a " Harrier Jump Jet " per se, right ?
Well I suppose God could have, except that no one would've known what God was talking about until a relatively few years ago.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Of course Job is much older than that, but I take your point.

Well I suppose God could have, except that no one would've known what God was talking about until a relatively few years ago.
Yes that IS my point .. We will be forced to have a " mark " on our hand so that we can buy or sell ? It is here, the MOB is a forerunner of this. So again the QR codes can be put on our hands or foreheads .. or even a simple barcode..
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Yes that IS my point .. We will be forced to have a " mark " on our hand so that we can buy or sell ? It is here, the MOB is a forerunner of this. So again the QR codes can be put on our hands or foreheads .. or even a simple barcode..
People have been speculating that the universal barcode system could be used as the mark of the beast since I was in college. That's been quite a while ago. But it's hard to deny the basic point.
 

JonHawk

Active member
He who believes and eats a steak shall be saved. Equally accurate. The Bible says that you are misquoting Jesus and are ignoring scripture.
Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him
Revelation 1:5 Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Has the blood of Jesus been forgotten?
'Who yielded His life an atonement for sin
And opened the life gate that all may go in.
O Come to the Father through Jesus the Son
And give Him the glory great things He has done.'

To Him [the Son of Man] was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away Dan 7:14

And the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever. Dan 7:18

I will praise You forever, Because You have done it; And in the presence of Your saints; Ps 52:9
 
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JonHawk

Active member
And to this day it is said, “On the mountain of the Lord it will be provided.”
Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him
Revelation 1:5 Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Has the blood of Jesus been forgotten?
"Who yielded His life an atonement for sin
And opened the flood gates that all may go in
O come to the Father through Jesus the Son
And give Him the glory great things He has done"

To Him [the Son, Jesus Christ] was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away,

And the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom,
and possess the kingdom forever and ever. Dan 7:14,18

I will praise You forever, Because You have done it; And in the presence of Your saints; Psalm 52:9, Psalm 111:9
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it.
God does it so that people will fear him [stand in awe]. Ecclesiastes 3:14
 
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JonHawk

Active member
And to this day it is said, “On the mountain of the Lord it will be provided.”

He provided redemption for his people;
He ordained his covenant forever—
holy and awesome is His name.
Psalm 111:9
Saxon said:
Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him
Revelation 1:5 Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Has the blood of Jesus been forgotten?
"Who yielded His life an atonement for sin
And opened the flood gates that all may go in
O come to the Father through Jesus the Son
And give Him the glory great things He has done"

To Him [the Son, Jesus Christ] was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away,

And the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom,
and possess the kingdom forever and ever. Dan 7:14,18

I will praise You forever, Because You have done it; And in the presence of Your saints; Psalm 52:9, Psalm 111:9
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it.
God does it so that people will fear him [stand in awe]. Ecclesiastes 3:14

David praised the Lord in the presence of the whole assembly, saying,
“Praise be to You, Lord, the God of our father Israel, from everlasting to everlasting.
Yours, Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the majesty and the splendor,
for everything in heaven and earth is Yours. Yours, Lord, is the kingdom; You are exalted as head over all. 1 Chron 29:10-11
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Hello

I direct your Attention to
Acts 10:44-48

Why does Peter still baptize Cornelius with water after he receives the Holy spirit?

I am interested in reading the different takes.
I was Baptised in Water AFTER (4 days) I was Infilled by the Holy Spirit (Born Again), and then 10 years later I was "Baptised in the Holy SPirit" (to use AG Vernacular) and became a Full Gospel Christian.

But after 58 years as a Christian, I couldn't give you a GOOD Biblical explanation about WHY we're baptised in water after we're Born Again. All I Know is that the Bible says people were, and so was I.
 

JonHawk

Active member
I will praise You forever, Because You have done it; And in the presence of Your saints; Psalm 52:9, Psalm 111:9

David praised the Lord in the presence of the whole assembly, saying,
“Praise be to You, Lord, the God of our father Israel, from everlasting to everlasting.
Yours, Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the majesty and the splendor,
for everything in heaven and earth is Yours. Yours, Lord, is the kingdom; You are exalted as head over all. 1 Chron 29:10-11

After John had first preached, before His coming, the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
I was Baptised in Water AFTER (4 days) I was Infilled by the Holy Spirit (Born Again),
So if I understand you correctly, you died to the to the weak and beggarly elements, to belong to another, who was raised from the dead?

God raised Him from the dead....And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:
‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’
And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus:
‘I will give you the sure mercies of David.’ Acts 13:30-41

But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
And He gave some as apostles, some as prophets,...until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, ...
As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, ...
but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, that is, Christ; Eph 4
 
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