Zechariah 12:10?

ApologeticsGuy

New Member
Hello, I often have used Zechariah 12:10 in the context of evangelism and I had a question. It reads in the ESV, ““And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.”

I like to listen to James White and he says that the Septuagint was the main Bible of the early church. Now I do not read Greek/Hebrew very well, but when I look at the Greek on Biblehub it doesn’t use the word “pierced” and it’s hard to tell if the change in pronouns “they will mourn for Him” is as explicit as it is in Hebrew and how it reads in English translations.

So I guess my question is for those who read Greek better than I do, is the Hebrew reading more of an explicit description of Jesus? Why or why not? Also, is the implied pronoun change (“they will mourn for Him” and “they will look on Me”) as explicit in Greek as it is in Hebrew? I just want to be consistent when I am sharing the Gospel with people and not just use the Greek or the Hebrew based on whether it is more detailed in a given scenario. Any help would be appreciated!
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Pulpit Commentary:

The LXX. renders, Ἐπιβλέψονται πρὸς μὲ ἀνθ ῶν κατωχρήσαντο, "They shall look to me because they insulted," either reading the last verb differently, or understanding it figuratively in the sense of assailing with cutting words; but there is no doubt about the true reading and interpretation.​
 

Gryllus Maior

Well-known member
The Hebrew is clear, using דקר:

qal: pf. דָּקָֽרוּ, דְּקָרֻהוּ/נִי, impf. יִדְקֹר, יִדְקְרֵהוּ, impv. דָּקְרֵנִי: to pierce through Nu 25:8 Ju 9:54 1S 31:4 Zech 12:10 13:3 1C 10:4. †

nif: יִדָּקֵר: to be pierced through: Is 13:15. †

pu: pt. מְדֻקָּרִים: to be pierced through Jr 37:10 51:4; ? Lam 4:9 מִתְּנוּבֹת שָׂדָֽי

Koehler, L., Baumgartner, W., Richardson, M. E. J., & Stamm, J. J. (1994–2000). The Hebrew and Aramaic lexicon of the Old Testament (electronic ed., p. 230). Leiden: E.J. Brill.

The LXX uses κατωρχήσαντο, from κατορχέομαι, "to dance mockingly in front of" hence "to mock, insult." While it may be true that what became the LXX was quoted in the NT, the OT was originally written in Hebrew, and the LXX is a translation. Since the vast majority of the ancient world at that time spoke at least some Greek, the NT writers used the translation available to them, but that doesn't mean it's a perfect translation, any more than any modern translation (though most modern translations are perfectly serviceable for worship and evangelism). Therefore it is to the Hebrew we must go to settle such questions, and I think you can confidently continue using the verse.

As to why the difference, I think your commentary cited above captures it. It's possible that the LXX translsator had a different Hebrew word in the Vorlage he was using, or that they are interpreting it metaphorically. I'm guessing that seems to undercut, for you, the messianic interpretation of the passage that you emphasize in your evangelism, but go with your English translation of the Hebrew, and you'll be fine.
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
Hello, I often have used Zechariah 12:10 in the context of evangelism and I had a question. It reads in the ESV, ““And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.”

I like to listen to James White and he says that the Septuagint was the main Bible of the early church. Now I do not read Greek/Hebrew very well, but when I look at the Greek on Biblehub it doesn’t use the word “pierced” and it’s hard to tell if the change in pronouns “they will mourn for Him” is as explicit as it is in Hebrew and how it reads in English translations.

So I guess my question is for those who read Greek better than I do, is the Hebrew reading more of an explicit description of Jesus? Why or why not? Also, is the implied pronoun change (“they will mourn for Him” and “they will look on Me”) as explicit in Greek as it is in Hebrew? I just want to be consistent when I am sharing the Gospel with people and not just use the Greek or the Hebrew based on whether it is more detailed in a given scenario. Any help would be appreciated!
There is a textual difference in some manuscripts which explains where John got 19:37

Edwin D. Freed, "Old Testament Quotations in the Gospel of John," pages 109,11 states "that some fifty Heb. mss. read eliv (on him) and it is this text upon which Jn is dependent."

And so some versions like the NRSV are similar to John 19:7.

Zech12:10 when they look on the one whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him
 
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