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Is objecting to wine demonic or a show of lack of faith?

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  • Is objecting to wine demonic or a show of lack of faith?

    Paul writes in his first letter to Timothy: "Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer."

    Paul writes to the Romans: "It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your [weak of faith] brother to stumble. The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin."

    Jesus tells us that the Pharisees called him a drunkard for drinking wine, and elsewhere Jesus called them the spawn of Satan.

    Throughout the Old Testament, periods when there was a lack of wine is treated as a curse.


  • #2
    Your theory has a Huge problem.

    God didnít CREATE Alcohol.........Man DID .
    No conviction,No conversion
    John 16:8
    And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    Comment


    • #3
      And worldwide today, wine (with all types alcoholic drinks of all drunkenness ) is a curse, bringing results of curses to little ones, dads and moms and teens and younger, very widespread, very addictive very popular, very social, very wicked, partly because (if not all) of money (profit/ greed) .

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ruk View Post
        Is objecting to wine demonic or a show of lack of faith?
        Since "Wine" (alcoholic variety) is not intrinsically EVIL, and in the Bible is recommended as a beverage on occasion, then "Objecting to it" (whatever that means) is related to CIRCUMSTANCES -

        If you're an alcoholic, then "objecting" to wine is a VERY WISE decision on your part.

        If you know there's an alcoholic(s) at your dinner/party (or the communion table), the LOVING THING to do would be to NOT TEMPT THEM with wine.

        If you're not an alcoholic, and are in the company of non-alcoholics socially, then a glass of wine is a very GOOD thing. I prefer the sweet white wines like Gewurztraminer to drink, rather than the dry.

        But If I'm having an Italian feast (which my wife whips up now an again for family and friends as Italian Wives do), then a Dry Red wines like a Chianti is the bomb. - yum!!!

        If you're a "Governor", a "King", or a "president" in the process of executing your duties, abstaining from alcoholic beverages is a WISE decision since "Wine is a mocker", and decision making ability is compromised.

        IF you're in the company of a bunch of hardshell "Christian fundamentalists" who are all hung up on "total abstention" - then have a Dr. Pepper instead.

        It's Romans 14 in practice - and all about circumstances.
        Last edited by Bob Carabbio; 01-16-19, 06:17 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bigboy View Post
          Your theory has a Huge problem.

          God didn’t CREATE Alcohol.........Man DID .
          God did create alcohol. The question is, is it demonic to refuse wine (on doctrinal grounds), per Paul's statement to Timothy that requiring abstinence of any food is demonic?

          Psalm 104:14-15 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

          Not to mention Jesus turning water into wine.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jethro77 View Post
            And worldwide today, wine (with all types alcoholic drinks of all drunkenness ) is a curse, bringing results of curses to little ones, dads and moms and teens and younger, very widespread, very addictive very popular, very social, very wicked, partly because (if not all) of money (profit/ greed) .
            I appreciate the concern over abuse and who's enriched by the money. That's a practical issue. I'm asking about doctrinally forbidding drinking.

            Comment


            • #7
              Objecting to alcoholic (and any such) substances is good in any situation. (there may be one or other 'exception', but not brought up yet)

              David Wilkerson showed this sufficiently in His sermons and in the book "Sipping Saints".

              I believe also that there's other books not related to alcohol that likewise show the diminishing returns that alcohol causes because of the disobedience and pride and "self" in using it and behind it, as well as all the results when it is used or even just 'defended' as if it could be. (motive being more important than the substance itself, possibly easier to show from Scripture than the other way around) ....

              Originally posted by Ruk View Post

              I appreciate the concern over abuse and who's enriched by the money. That's a practical issue. I'm asking about doctrinally forbidding drinking.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ruk View Post

                God did create alcohol.
                Book Chapter Verse would be helpful.
                No conviction,No conversion
                John 16:8
                And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

                  Book Chapter Verse would be helpful.
                  Already quoted. Try again. I don't pretend elephants in the room don't exist, water in oceans don't exist, or the Bible presenting wine as a blessing many times over doesn't exist.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ruk View Post

                    Already quoted. Try again. I don't pretend elephants in the room don't exist, water in oceans don't exist, or the Bible presenting wine as a blessing many times over doesn't exist.
                    I missed where God created alcohol......where was that ?
                    No conviction,No conversion
                    John 16:8
                    And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ruk View Post
                      Paul writes in his first letter to Timothy: "Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer."

                      Paul writes to the Romans: "It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your [weak of faith] brother to stumble. The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin."

                      Jesus tells us that the Pharisees called him a drunkard for drinking wine, and elsewhere Jesus called them the spawn of Satan.

                      Throughout the Old Testament, periods when there was a lack of wine is treated as a curse.
                      I think it's more of a conflagration of justification and sanctification. It's the same trap the Catholics fall into. Not really a lack of faith but an example of a weak faith. Those with a week faith tend to fall into legalism. In this case it's teetolalism instead of praying to saints.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dropkick View Post

                        I think it's more of a conflagration of justification and sanctification. It's the same trap the Catholics fall into. Not really a lack of faith but an example of a weak faith. Those with a week faith tend to fall into legalism. In this case it's teetolalism instead of praying to saints.
                        You are correct. But, I have one caution. I often see weak or nominal Christians accuse other Christians of legalism for having non-wordily standards. I don't think it's legalism, for example, for churches to per se have a dress code for the sake of modesty and reverence. But, those who say Jesus didn't drink are guilty of blind legalism. They condemn what the Bible overwhelmingly approves of in both word and spirit, and it's not an issue of sober conduct (which is biblical) but of following their man-made rules or be deemed guilty of sin.

                        Those who legalistically oppose drinking haven't responded to the two verses I quoted.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ruk View Post

                          You are correct. But, I have one caution. I often see weak or nominal Christians accuse other Christians of legalism for having non-wordily standards. I don't think it's legalism, for example, for churches to per se have a dress code for the sake of modesty and reverence. But, those who say Jesus didn't drink are guilty of blind legalism. They condemn what the Bible overwhelmingly approves of in both word and spirit, and it's not an issue of sober conduct (which is biblical) but of following their man-made rules or be deemed guilty of sin.

                          Those who legalistically oppose drinking haven't responded to the two verses I quoted.
                          And you donít seem to understand God didnt and dosent make alcoholic wine......man makes alcoholic wine.
                          No conviction,No conversion
                          John 16:8
                          And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ruk View Post

                            You are correct. But, I have one caution. I often see weak or nominal Christians accuse other Christians of legalism for having non-wordily standards. I don't think it's legalism, for example, for churches to per se have a dress code for the sake of modesty and reverence. But, those who say Jesus didn't drink are guilty of blind legalism. They condemn what the Bible overwhelmingly approves of in both word and spirit, and it's not an issue of sober conduct (which is biblical) but of following their man-made rules or be deemed guilty of sin.

                            Those who legalistically oppose drinking haven't responded to the two verses I quoted.
                            Yah you got a good point. Can't really dispute it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

                              And you don’t seem to understand God didnt and dosent make alcoholic wine......man makes alcoholic wine.
                              If I drink wine am I going to hell?

                              Comment

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