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Is objecting to wine demonic or a show of lack of faith?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Dropkick View Post

    So if Christ saved me is it okay to drink wine?
    No.

    Why do you want to twist my words and play cat and mouse games ?

    We all know you luferites are alcohol drinkers.......let your priest bless you and encourge you in your activity .
    No conviction,No conversion
    John 16:8
    And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

      No.

      Why do you want to twist my words and play cat and mouse games ?

      We all know you luferites are alcohol drinkers.......let your priest bless you and encourge you in your activity .
      How am I twisting your words. You say I wont go to hell if I drink wine and Christ has saved me then in the next breath you say it's not okay to drink wine. So are you saying that after you are saved if you drink wine you will go to hell?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Dropkick View Post

        How am I twisting your words. You say I wont go to hell if I drink wine and Christ has saved me then in the next breath you say it's not okay to drink wine. So are you saying that after you are saved if you drink wine you will go to hell?
        Just because something is not okay, it doesn't mean that there is a punishment of eternal damnation attached to it. Physical consequences to poor behavior are often seen in scripture. Sometimes (in this poster's opinion), physical consequences are built into our bodies. For example, if you drink to much wine you may experience liver problems... It may be also that God will choose to directly intervene in a believer's life and visit another sort of chastisement.

        Just sayin'

        Let not conscience make you linger
        Nor of fitness fondly dream
        All the fitness He requires
        Is to feel your need of Him

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Dropkick View Post

          How am I twisting your words. You say I wont go to hell if I drink wine and Christ has saved me then in the next breath you say it's not okay to drink wine. So are you saying that after you are saved if you drink wine you will go to hell?
          If you tell a lie after Christ saved you, will you go to hell? Does that make it Okay to lie?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Stepping Heavenward View Post

            If you tell a lie after Christ saved you, will you go to hell? Does that make it Okay to lie?
            So if I drink wine after I'm saved does that mean I was never saved in the first place or do I just temporarily lose my salvation until I can ask for forgivness?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Dave View Post

              Just because something is not okay, it doesn't mean that there is a punishment of eternal damnation attached to it. Physical consequences to poor behavior are often seen in scripture. Sometimes (in this poster's opinion), physical consequences are built into our bodies. For example, if you drink to much wine you may experience liver problems... It may be also that God will choose to directly intervene in a believer's life and visit another sort of chastisement.

              Just sayin'
              I could say the exact same thing about food. If I follow the teetolars logic I should then stop eating.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Dropkick View Post

                So if I drink wine after I'm saved does that mean I was never saved in the first place or do I just temporarily lose my salvation until I can ask for forgivness?
                Neither.

                To be clear, I'm not saying that having a glass of wine or even a strong alcoholic drink is a sin. I'm disagreeing with your premise as a whole, which is why I used a different example of sin, such as lying. I don't believe that an individual sin proves a person not saved. We are told that the flesh will still struggle with sin.

                A believer has the Holy Spirit that goes about convicting when we have sinned at which point a believer would confess those sins.

                If a person's life is full of sin withoutrepentance, confession and sorrow for their sins than they are likely an unbeliever and not saved, but If a believer who has expressed faith, repentance and confession of sin in the past, goes out and gets drunk some night for reasons unknown to others and dies in his sleep before he confesses his sin, I'd still believe him saved.

                We see time and again in the Bible faithful children of God who have sinned.

                I don't believe that God abandons His children because of sin. That's why Christ died for us. He doesn't send His own child to hell because they died before they were convicted or became aware of a particular sin.

                The only other option is that we are only His child when we're without sin, and then we aren't His child when we sin, back and forth we go, never certain of our standing as a child of God.

                It's grace that gave us faith to believe, grace that we receive conviction to confess our sins. and grace that gives one the confidence to know that they are a child of God, a son or daughter of the King and that nothing can change His love for us.

                Romans 8:38 "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a]neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

                Do you believe that despite Paul's leading by the Spirit to write the above that he also believed that somehow a drink, a lie, or any other single sin has the power to separate us from His love and have Him cast us in to the lake of fire forever if we don't confess that single sin before we die? Even the Catholics don't believe that.

                Do you honestly believe that you have confessed every sin you have ever committed? Our only hope is general confession for sins we don't even realize we have committed, unless we live such a scrupulous life that we think of nothing else. Not many can say they do that.


                Last edited by Stepping Heavenward; 01-28-19, 06:17 AM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Dropkick View Post

                  I could say the exact same thing about food. If I follow the teetolars logic I should then stop eating.
                  Yes, I agree with you on this. The logic has to be based on what scripture says, not on philosophical or human reasoning of what might happen to actually call a single drink at a time a sin for all.

                  Gluttony is definitely a sin that is having horrible consequences to many and in turn impacting their loved ones because of their self inflicted illnesses, early demise etc. not to mention the fact that others starve while some overfill.

                  Yet you don't see it being preached very often, at least from certain pulpits that often do preach against drinking.

                  We are told that Wine is a mocker and strong drink a brawler. That doesn't mean that one glass of wine is going to turn you into a mocker and one hard drink is going to turn you into a fighter. It's a warning against what can happen and I respect those who choose to never partake.

                  I don't drink much anyways, one or two a year at most, some years probably none, so I could easily preach against it and abstain, but I don't believe that's biblical.

                  Heeding the warnings about it are though.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Stepping Heavenward View Post


                    The only other option is that we are only His child when we're without sin, and then we aren't His child when we sin, back and forth we go, never certain of our standing as a child of God.
                    Which is exactly what happens when you add laws where no laws exist. If you use something outside of its intended use, see psalm 104, in this case wine, it is sinful. The same can be said about intercourse. There are a number of examples of what can happen if intercourse is not used according to its intended purpose. Now if I follow bigboys logic intercourse should be stopped immediately by everyone. The Shakers tried, it didn't turn out so well for them. In fact how well did eliminating wine from the US work out for that country?

                    Both examples make sin where no sin exist. By doing so we only cause our salvation to come into question. God warned Peter of doing this in a vision. Why do teetotalers make unclean what God has made clean?
                    Last edited by Dropkick; 01-28-19, 09:19 AM.

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