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Is All Wine Alcoholic In Scripture As Some Suggest ?

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  • Is All Wine Alcoholic In Scripture As Some Suggest ?

    "Lo, this have I found," saith the wise man (Ecc. 7:29), "that God made man upright, but they have sought out many inventions."

    The things created for food, and which are to be received with thanksgiving, are those which are in their natural and wholesome condition, and which nourish and strengthen the body, and not those which are in the process of decomposition. Rotten fruits of all kinds are rejected as innutritious and unwholesome. So also are decaying meats. It is a strange perversion of all science, as well as of common sense, to rank among the good creatures of God alcohol, which is found in no living plant, but which is to be found only after the death of the fruit, and is the product of decomposition




    Now, what if there is another kind of wine spoken of in the Word of God that cannot possibly be intoxicating, where fermentation and the consequent presence of alcohol are out of the question—what then?

    Why, is it not reasonable and consistent, the demand alike of common sense and common conscience, to regard this as the wine commended in Scripture as a blessing making glad the heart of man?

    To the law and the testimony: God, threatening Moab with desolation, said, Isaiah 16:10, 'In the vineyard there shall be no singing and shouting, the treaders shall tread out no wine in their presses. I have made their vintage—shouting to cease.' And again, Jer. 48:33, 'I have caused wine to fail from the winepresses; none shall tread with shouting.' Again, Gedaliah, made governor by the King of Babylon over the cities of Judah, thus commanded the Jews, Jer. 40:10, ‘Gather ye wine, and summer fruits, and oil, and put them in your vessels.' And the record is, "They gathered wine and summer fruits very much.' the Bible also speaks of ‘presses bursting with new wine,' of ‘wine found in the cluster'; and it says of this wine, and of this only, and in this very connection, ‘a blessing is in it.'

    Here is frequent reference to the pure, unfermented juice of the grape as just trodden out of the presses, just gathered from the vintage, and even as found in the cluster. And here this grape-juice is repeatedly, and by the Jews themselves, in their own Scriptures, called wine, both yayin and tirosh.

    "There is no exploit of logic that can make any sane man believe this to be the very same wine elsewhere called 'a mocker.'

    The deceitful, subtle, serpent element has, not yet entered it; for alcohol requires time and a process for its formation. It is the simple, unfermented juice of the grape, just as cider right out of the press is the simple, unfermented juice of the apple.

    And as such, God says, a blessing is in it. Here, then, is the scriptural distinction between wine and wine.

    Satan has tried to and has been mostly sucessful in convincing man that wine is Always Alcoholic in Scripture Don’t fall for the LIE.

    Portions are from Bible Wines by William Patton.

    No conviction,No conversion
    John 16:8
    And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

  • #2
    Originally posted by Bigboy View Post
    Is All Wine Alcoholic In Scripture As Some Suggest ?
    This is the "ALWAYS and NEVER" Manoever - i.e. if it ain't one, it's GOT TO BE THE OTHER.

    HONEST Answer to the question is: we don't know, but probably NOT.

    OBVIOUSLY in many instances Biblical wine IS Alcoholic. but that doesn't mean it ALWAYS IS.

    The arguments in Patton's article are WEAK, and obviously driven by his denominational/paradigmatic necessity to prove that alcoholic wine is "bad".

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

      This is the "ALWAYS and NEVER" Manoever - i.e. if it ain't one, it's GOT TO BE THE OTHER.

      HONEST Answer to the question is: we don't know, but probably NOT.

      OBVIOUSLY in many instances Biblical wine IS Alcoholic. but that doesn't mean it ALWAYS IS.

      The arguments in Patton's article are WEAK, and obviously driven by his denominational/paradigmatic necessity to prove that alcoholic wine is "bad".
      So wine in the cluster is alcoholic ?

      Wine coming out of the press is alcoholic ?

      Is this fermentation as fast as the speed of light......NO......obvisouly wine does NOT always mean Alcoholic in scripture.

      When the Bible speaks of wine context determines wether alcoholic or non-alcoholic is meant.

      This is one area our English language is lacking in not having a distinction between the two.

      Patton certainly has a better arguement than you do......Bobby.......his has scripture to show.
      No conviction,No conversion
      John 16:8
      And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

      Comment


      • #4
        So if I eat sauerkraut will I go to hell, what about sourdough bread, or aged steaks? Man, you religion has a lot of rules about eating!

        The above reference is nothing more than rank judiazing, especially when you consider the vision that Peter had. You know, the one where he was eating all kinds of stuff and Christ said what I make clean don't make unclean. I guess your forgot about that or you wouldn't have quoted a man that's adding dietary laws to salvation.

        You might wanna actually learn something about wine before you make yourself look more ignorant on the subject.

        Does grape juice ferment naturally?
        A ripe organic grape is full of natural sugars and there are wild yeasts living on its skin. As soon as the skin of thegrape is broken, fermentation can begin. To make wine, all the winemaker has to do is collect his grapes and gently crush them, releasing the sugary juice and exposing it to the yeasts.

        As far as this speed of light thing you are peddling, it's just nonsense. Yes, the same God that created the universe in an instant can take charge over his creation and create wine in an instant, just like he did at the wedding feast.

        Maybe you should start concerning yourself with Christ and him crucified and not adding a bunch on unbiblical dietary laws to prove to yourself and others that you are saved. Trust in Scripture and not your irrationalism.
        Last edited by Dropkick; 01-25-19, 10:24 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Some think that Jesus was a moonshiner by making better moonshine than the wedding party had.

          They insist that Jesus made sure that they were plastered with the good stuff he made.

          That would mean that He put Himself under the Hab 2 curse.

          Who will drink to that?...


          15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

          16 Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the Lord's right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory.

          17 For the violence of Lebanon shall cover thee, and the spoil of beasts, which made them afraid, because of men's blood, and for the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein.



          Maybe Jesus hung around to make sure they behaved?


          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bigboy View Post
            his has scripture to show.
            And a Bucket load of Religious ASSUMPTIONS to go along with it.
            Last edited by Bob Carabbio; 01-25-19, 10:58 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Truther View Post
              Some think that Jesus was a moonshiner by making better moonshine than the wedding party had.
              This is the "Jump to the absurd" manoever. It's common here when there's no real arguments. "Wine" isn't "Moonshine", and the inebriation of the wedding guests isn't in question. The governor of the feast simply stated that Jesus' WINE was better quality that what had been served up to that point. SO obviously Jesus manufactured a BETTER VERSION of the stuff that had gotten the guests "impared" to begin with. It's not likely that any of 'em "drove home" after the party, though, so no problem.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                This is the "Jump to the absurd" manoever. It's common here when there's no real arguments. "Wine" isn't "Moonshine", and the inebriation of the wedding guests isn't in question. The governor of the feast simply stated that Jesus' WINE was better quality that what had been served up to that point. SO obviously Jesus manufactured a BETTER VERSION of the stuff that had gotten the guests "impared" to begin with. It's not likely that any of 'em "drove home" after the party, though, so no problem.
                Where does it state the guests weere “ impared “ ?
                No conviction,No conversion
                John 16:8
                And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

                  Where does it state the guests weere “ impared “ ?
                  The governor of the feast said that the guests were "Methyo" (John 2:10).

                  Look it up.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It is my belief that all wine mentioned in the Bible is not alcoholic. It is my belief and conviction that the wine the Jesus created at the wedding feast in Cana was better than what had been served previously because it was unfermented. It seems to me that in the mind of a first century Jew the worse wine got the more fermented it was, which would make the least fermented and the unfermented wine the best wine. Just my opinion, though. If someone wants to believe the Jesus created fermented wine at the wedding feast more power to 'em.
                    greatdivide46
                    By his breath the heavens gained their beauty; His hand pierced the fleeing serpent. -- (Job 26:13).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Party Time! End of discussion, Scripture is the standard, not your tradition.


                      G3184 (Strong)

                      μεθύω

                      methuō

                      meth-oo'-o

                      From another form of G3178; to drink to intoxication, that is, get drunk: - drink well, make (be) drunk (-en).

                      Total KJV occurrences: 7

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by WDG View Post
                        Party Time! End of discussion, Scripture is the standard, not your tradition.


                        G3184 (Strong)

                        μεθύω

                        methuō

                        meth-oo'-o

                        From another form of G3178; to drink to intoxication, that is, get drunk: - drink well, make (be) drunk (-en).

                        Total KJV occurrences: 7
                        I am a little tied up right now but don’t you and Bobby get your party hats on just yet.
                        No conviction,No conversion
                        John 16:8
                        And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by WDG View Post
                          Party Time! End of discussion, Scripture is the standard, not your tradition.


                          G3184 (Strong)

                          μεθύω

                          methuō

                          meth-oo'-o

                          From another form of G3178; to drink to intoxication, that is, get drunk: - drink well, make (be) drunk (-en).

                          Total KJV occurrences: 7
                          I despise using the greek ......this subject is one of Very few where we have to look at it.


                          Oinos is a generic word, applicable to the juice of the apple in all its stages, just as yayin in the Hebrew, oinos in the Greek, vinum in the Latin, and wine in the English are generic words, and denote the juice of the grape in all conditions.

                          OINOS.—Biblical scholars are agreed that in the Septuagint or Greek translation of the Old Testament and in the New Testament, the word oinos corresponds to the Hebrew word yayin. Stuart says: "In the New Testament we have oinos, which corresponds exactly to the Hebrew yayin." As both yayin and oinos are generic words, they designate the juice of the grape in all its stages.

                          Bible wines by William Patton



                          From Life in the Spirit Study Bible KJV:

                          Notes on John 2:10 - Good wine. According to various ancient writers, the "good" (choice, or best) wine was the sweetest wine - i.e., one that could be drunk freely without the fear of intoxication.

                          It is significant that the Greek adjective translated "good" here is not agathos, meaning "good," but kalos, meaning "morally excellent or befitting."

                          When men have well drunk. The phrase "have well drunk" is from the Greek word methusko, a word that has two meanings: (1) to be or become drunk, and

                          (2) to be filled or satisfied without reference to intoxication.


                          Methusko may be understood here in the second of these two meanings.

                          In this verse the banquet master is merely stating a general observation that would have applied to all wedding celebrations regardless of the type of drink served.

                          The observation assumes (1) that hosts want to keep their guests happy, and (2) that satisfied guests don't suddenly raise their expectations.

                          The force of the observation is unrelated to intoxication and therefore does not assume a drunken inability the guests to discern the quality of the wine.

                          Thus the context in no way suggests that Jesus was contributing to a drunken party.

                          So put up the party favors and hats......The word of God rained on your party !

                          No conviction,No conversion
                          John 16:8
                          And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Is all wine 'a mocker'? [Proverbs 20:1] Then it was a 'a mocker' that Jesus made for the guest at the wedding feast in Cana, and 'a mocker' which Jesus introduced to his disciples at the Passover table, and bade them to drink. Does all wine 'bite like a serpent' and 'sting like an adder'? [Proverbs 23:32] Then Jesus made wine for the guests at Cana with the 'bite of a serpent' and the 'sting of an adder' in it. Do you believe it? No, a thousand times no!

                            Did Jesus give to His disciples a cup in which were the 'bite of a serpent and the sting of an adder,' and tell them that cup contained that which represented his blood, His life-giving blood – shed for the remission of their sins? Do you believe it?

                            Every mention of wine does NOT mean it was alcoholic..............NO.

                            It means grape juice time after time......and contray to what some would tell you people in the Bible DID drink grape juice .

                            Genesis 40:11
                            11 And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand.
                            No conviction,No conversion
                            John 16:8
                            And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

                              I despise using the greek ......this subject is one of Very few where we have to look at it.


                              Oinos is a generic word, applicable to the juice of the apple in all its stages, just as yayin in the Hebrew, oinos in the Greek, vinum in the Latin, and wine in the English are generic words, and denote the juice of the grape in all conditions.

                              OINOS.—Biblical scholars are agreed that in the Septuagint or Greek translation of the Old Testament and in the New Testament, the word oinos corresponds to the Hebrew word yayin. Stuart says: "In the New Testament we have oinos, which corresponds exactly to the Hebrew yayin." As both yayin and oinos are generic words, they designate the juice of the grape in all its stages.

                              Bible wines by William Patton



                              From Life in the Spirit Study Bible KJV:

                              Notes on John 2:10 - Good wine. According to various ancient writers, the "good" (choice, or best) wine was the sweetest wine - i.e., one that could be drunk freely without the fear of intoxication.

                              It is significant that the Greek adjective translated "good" here is not agathos, meaning "good," but kalos, meaning "morally excellent or befitting."

                              When men have well drunk. The phrase "have well drunk" is from the Greek word methusko, a word that has two meanings: (1) to be or become drunk, and

                              (2) to be filled or satisfied without reference to intoxication.


                              Methusko may be understood here in the second of these two meanings.

                              In this verse the banquet master is merely stating a general observation that would have applied to all wedding celebrations regardless of the type of drink served.

                              The observation assumes (1) that hosts want to keep their guests happy, and (2) that satisfied guests don't suddenly raise their expectations.

                              The force of the observation is unrelated to intoxication and therefore does not assume a drunken inability the guests to discern the quality of the wine.

                              Thus the context in no way suggests that Jesus was contributing to a drunken party.

                              So put up the party favors and hats......The word of God rained on your party !
                              I think I know why you despise the Greek, it does not agree with your legalistic tradition. Very sad

                              Comment

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