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Ephesians 2

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  • Ephesians 2

    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
    There is no "make-believe" package. Just what the Bible says. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus and NOT by works--so, if not by works, what is there left to be saved by?
    By God's grace. Ephesians 2 does not state we are saved by faith nor works--but by God's grace.

    The question now is--who receives this grace unto life--as a personal reception?

    Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    That's the Redeemer's conditions of receiving His grace unto life.

    Are those who do God's commands--identified as those who are "faithful"?

  • #2
    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

    By God's grace. Ephesians 2 does not state we are saved by faith nor works--but by God's grace.

    The question now is--who receives this grace unto life--as a personal reception?

    Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    That's the Redeemer's conditions of receiving His grace unto life.

    Are those who do God's commands--identified as those who are "faithful"?
    Ephesians 2:8

    "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

    Did you see the word: FAITH in the above verse?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jake1254 View Post
      Ephesians 2:8

      "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God."

      Did you see the word: FAITH in the above verse?
      I do.

      So--for you--is that a reference to a faith with works--or to a faith without works?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

        I do.

        So--for you--is that a reference to a faith with works--or to a faith without works?
        Read Eph 2 again.

        "Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Eph 2:9)

        The Scriptures says (not me) that we are saved by faith. NOT WORKS.

        It's really very clear and very simple. Careful that you do not keep twisting scriptures to fit the teachings of your church.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

          I do.

          So--for you--is that a reference to a faith with works--or to a faith without works?
          A faith that leads to doing good works. IF it leads to doing what pleases God, then it is a living faith. if it just sits there and the person isn't changed in any way, then it was never a real faith to begin with. Simple.

          Do you know what it means to be a new creation in Christ Jesus? Yes or no? Care to tell us?
          "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
          "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
          “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
          "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
          "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jake1254 View Post
            Read Eph 2 again.

            "Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Eph 2:9)

            The Scriptures says (not me) that we are saved by faith.
            Hi Jake:

            I don't find that anywhere in Ephesians 2. Perhaps you would like to point that out.

            My reading states we are saved by grace through faith:

            Ephesians 2:8---King James Version (KJV)
            8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

            We are not saved by faith nor works--but by God's grace.

            It's really very clear and very simple. Careful that you do not keep twisting scriptures to fit the teachings of your church.
            Jake--I'm not the one who advocates we are saved by faith. It's by God's grace.

            The question now is--who does God give this grace to?

            Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
            9 And being made perfect, he became the author ofeternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

            Jake--when you find the term "faith" in the Bible--is that a reference to a faith with works--or a reference to a faith without works?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
              A faith that leads to doing good works. IF it leads to doing what pleases God, then it is a living faith.
              But the Lutherans advocate man cannot do good unless he is first saved through faith. Then, good works follow.

              If you believe it is a "living faith" in "doing what pleases God"--then what kind of faith was it in obtaining salvation--before you believe man is capable of doing good?

              if it just sits there and the person isn't changed in any way, then it was never a real faith to begin with.
              What works are you adding to faith in obtaining salvation? IOW--you are still qualifying "living faith" as a faith plus doing what pleases God. Here--you are dedacting and adding something to faith in qualifying it as "real faith".

              Bonnie--what do you add to faith in obtaining salvation?

              Is that faith in obtaining salvation--a living, real faith before we do anything to please God?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                Hi Jake:

                I don't find that anywhere in Ephesians 2. Perhaps you would like to point that out.

                My reading states we are saved by grace through faith:

                Ephesians 2:8---King James Version (KJV)
                8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

                We are not saved by faith nor works--but by God's grace.



                Jake--I'm not the one who advocates we are saved by faith. It's by God's grace.

                The question now is--who does God give this grace to?

                Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
                9 And being made perfect, he became the author ofeternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

                Jake--when you find the term "faith" in the Bible--is that a reference to a faith with works--or a reference to a faith without works?
                You are trying to complicate what Ephsians2 so clearly teaches. Works do not save anyone nor does it keep anyone saved. You do a lot of jumping through hoops to try and make Eph, 2 fit the "works" theology of Mormonism.

                Ephesians says it's faith WITHOUT WORKS. You disagree. I will go with what God said.

                No, you don't advocate we are saved by faith, but its what the Scriptures says.
                Learn to expect the impossible, expect the unusual, and expect the miraculous, because that is where God works.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post Hi Jake:

                  I don't find that anywhere in Ephesians 2. Perhaps you would like to point that out.

                  My reading states we are saved by grace through faith:

                  Ephesians 2:8---King James Version (KJV)
                  8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

                  We are not saved by faith nor works--but by God's grace.

                  Jake--I'm not the one who advocates we are saved by faith. It's by God's grace.

                  The question now is--who does God give this grace to?

                  Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
                  9 And being made perfect, he became the author ofeternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

                  Jake--when you find the term "faith" in the Bible--is that a reference to a faith with works--or a reference to a faith without works?
                  Originally posted by Ansel07 View Post
                  Works do not save anyone
                  Please cite any reference where I have advocated works saves one. As my above post shows--I believe it's God's grace which saves.

                  The question being--who does God extend this salvational grace to?

                  1 John 1:7--King James Version (KJV)
                  7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

                  nor does it keep anyone saved.
                  God's grace keeps one saved--and it sustains them which endure:

                  Matthew 10:22---King James Version (KJV)
                  22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

                  You do a lot of jumping through hoops to try and make Eph, 2 fit the "works" theology of Mormonism.
                  So does Paul:

                  Romans 2:5-11--King James Version (KJV)
                  5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
                  6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
                  7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
                  8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
                  9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
                  10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
                  11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

                  What is there about Paul's testimony which you don't feel fits the Ephesians2 mold?


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post A faith that leads to doing good works. IF it leads to doing what pleases God, then it is a living faith.

                    if it just sits there and the person isn't changed in any way, then it was never a real faith to begin with.
                    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post
                    But the Lutherans advocate man cannot do good unless he is first saved through faith. Then, good works follow.

                    If you believe it is a "living faith" in "doing what pleases God"--then what kind of faith was it in obtaining salvation--before you believe man is capable of doing good?

                    What works are you adding to faith in obtaining salvation? IOW--you are still qualifying "living faith" as a faith plus doing what pleases God. Here--you are dedacting and adding something to faith in qualifying it as "real faith".

                    Bonnie--what do you add to faith in obtaining salvation?

                    Is that faith in obtaining salvation--a living, real faith before we do anything to please God?
                    Bump for Bonnie--here is your Ephesians 2 chance to ask all the questions you wish about Eph2.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bonnie View Post A faith that leads to doing good works. IF it leads to doing what pleases God, then it is a living faith.

                      if it just sits there and the person isn't changed in any way, then it was never a real faith to begin with.
                      Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post But the Lutherans advocate man cannot do good unless he is first saved through faith. Then, good works follow.

                      If you believe it is a "living faith" in "doing what pleases God"--then what kind of faith was it in obtaining salvation--before you believe man is capable of doing good?

                      What works are you adding to faith in obtaining salvation? IOW--you are still qualifying "living faith" as a faith plus doing what pleases God. Here--you are dedacting and adding something to faith in qualifying it as "real faith".

                      Bonnie--what do you add to faith in obtaining salvation?

                      Is that faith in obtaining salvation--a living, real faith before we do anything to please God?
                      Bump for Bonnie--here is your Ephesians 2 chance to ask all the questions you wish about Eph2.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post
                        Bump for Bonnie--here is your Ephesians 2 chance to ask all the questions you wish about Eph2.
                        Bonnie--the mods just closed down the other Ephesians2 thread--without a single response from you.

                        You have complained about me not answering questions about Ephesians2--and you didn't even take the opportunity to post one single entry in the thread.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post
                          Bonnie--the mods just closed down the other Ephesians2 thread--without a single response from you.

                          You have complained about me not answering questions about Ephesians2--and you didn't even take the opportunity to post one single entry in the thread.
                          Bump for Bonnie--here is your chance to ask all the questions you have about Eph2.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post



                            Please cite any reference where I have advocated works saves one. As my above post shows--I believe it's God's grace which saves.

                            The question being--who does God extend this salvational grace to?

                            1 John 1:7--King James Version (KJV)
                            7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.



                            God's grace keeps one saved--and it sustains them which endure:

                            Matthew 10:22---King James Version (KJV)
                            22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.



                            So does Paul:

                            Romans 2:5-11--King James Version (KJV)
                            5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
                            6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
                            7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
                            8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
                            9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
                            10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
                            11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

                            What is there about Paul's testimony which you don't feel fits the Ephesians2 mold?

                            Romans 4: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from[c] faith for his name’s sake.
                            Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

                            “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
                            but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


                            Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post Please cite any reference where I have advocated works saves one. As my above post shows--I believe it's God's grace which saves.

                              The question being--who does God extend this salvational grace to?

                              1 John 1:7--King James Version (KJV)
                              7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

                              God's grace keeps one saved--and it sustains them which endure:

                              Matthew 10:22---King James Version (KJV)
                              22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

                              So does Paul:

                              Romans 2:5-11--King James Version (KJV)
                              5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
                              6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
                              7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
                              8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
                              9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
                              10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
                              11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

                              What is there about Paul's testimony which you don't feel fits the Ephesians2 mold?
                              Originally posted by Thekla View Post
                              Romans 4: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from[c] faith for his name’s sake.
                              Hi Thekla:

                              How are you relating that to the above scriptures?

                              Comment

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