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Those who "do" righteousness

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  • Those who "do" righteousness


    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post Righteousness is by faith in Jesus Christ. Those who "do" righteousness are those who believe in Jesus Christ.
    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    That seems to be exactly what the parable shows--or, IOW--

    1 John 3:7 ---King James Version (KJV)
    7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
    I would like to bump this post for all Lutherans.

    How do Lutherans fit this into faith alone theology?


  • #2
    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post




    I would like to bump this post for all Lutherans.

    How do Lutherans fit this into faith alone theology?
    Gill says it this way....

    he that doeth righteousness, is righteous; not that any man is made righteous by the works of the law, or by his obedience to the law of works, for this is contrary to the express word of God; and besides, the best righteousness of man is imperfect, and can never constitute or denominate him righteous before God; and was he justified by it; it would not only lay a foundation for boasting in him, which ought not to be, but would make the death, the sacrifice, and righteousness of Christ, to be in vain; men are only made righteous by the righteousness of Christ, which be has wrought out which is revealed in the Gospel, and received by faith, and which God imputes without works; so that he that doeth righteousness is he that being convinced of the insufficiency of his own righteousness, and of the excellency and suitableness of Christ's righteousness, renounces his own, and submits to his; who lays hold upon it, receives it, and exercises faith on it, as his justifying righteousness; and, in consequence of this, lives in a course of holiness and righteousness, in opposition to, and distinction from one that commits sin, or lives a sinful course of life; which, though it does not make him righteous in the sight of God, yet it shows him to be righteous in the sight of men, and proves that faith to be right which lays hold on the righteousness of Christ, by which he is truly righteous:

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by CrowCross View Post
      Gill says it this way....

      he that doeth righteousness, is righteous; not that any man is made righteous by the works of the law, or by his obedience to the law of works, for this is contrary to the express word of God; and besides,
      Hi Crow:

      No one is claiming one is made righteous through the Mosaic law.

      It's through obedience to the gospel one is brought to abide in Jesus Christ:

      2 John 9--- King James Version (KJV)
      9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

      the best righteousness of man is imperfect, and can never constitute or denominate him righteous before God; and was he justified by it; it would not only lay a foundation for boasting in him, which ought not to be, but would make the death, the sacrifice, and righteousness of Christ, to be in vain; men are only made righteous by the righteousness of Christ,
      When one obeys God--and does the best they might--that is good enough for God's grace:

      1 John 1:7 ----King James Version (KJV)
      7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

      As the Savior testified--one will not be judged according to life or damnation, as to what works God did----but how one obeyed God--and did His works:

      John 5:28-29 ---King James Version (KJV)
      28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
      29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
      If we receive God's righteousness--then why would one be judged according to their own works? If that were so(God imputed His Righteousness to us before the judgment) --then God Himself would be the One being judged in that judgment.

      IOW--all will be judged according to their own obedience to those works which God has given man to do--and either rewarded with "life"--or "damnation". There is no such thing as the imputed righteousness of God--as far as the personal judgment according to works is concerned--that, even His grace unto eternal life, as a personal reality--is what is extended to man from God--to all those who have obeyed His gospel. God's grace is also extended all along that pathway which leads to eternal life, but obedience to the gospel is the point where God extends His grace unto life:

      2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 ---King James Version (KJV)
      7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
      8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
      9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
      Last edited by dberrie2000; 10-07-18, 11:02 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

        When one obeys God--and does the best they might--that is good enough for God's grace:
        The red is not biblical.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by CrowCross View Post
          The red is not biblical.
          The scriptures have God extending His grace to them which walk in His light--are you claiming that walk is not the best we can do?

          1 John 1:7 ----King James Version (KJV)
          7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

            The scriptures have God extending His grace to them which walk in His light--are you claiming that walk is not the best we can do?

            1 John 1:7 ----King James Version (KJV)
            7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

            As Gills puts it:
            But if we walk in the light,.... Are persons enlightened by the Spirit of God, so as to have a true sight and sense of sin, to know Christ, and the way of salvation by him; and are children of the light, and are going on and increasing in spiritual light and knowledge; walk on in Christ, the light, by faith, and in the light and truth of the Gospel, and as becomes it, and as children of light; and as such who are called out of darkness into marvellous light:

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by CrowCross View Post


              As Gills puts it:
              But if we walk in the light,.... Are persons enlightened by the Spirit of God, so as to have a true sight and sense of sin, to know Christ, and the way of salvation by him; and are children of the light, and are going on and increasing in spiritual light and knowledge; walk on in Christ, the light, by faith, and in the light and truth of the Gospel, and as becomes it, and as children of light; and as such who are called out of darkness into marvellous light:
              And the only way to walk in the TRUE Light, is by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord--the TRUE One of the Bible, not the false one of pseudo-Christian cults.
              "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
              "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
              "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
              "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
              "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                The scriptures have God extending His grace to them which walk in His light--are you claiming that walk is not the best we can do?

                1 John 1:7 ----King James Version (KJV)
                7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
                The "best we can do" is NOT walking in the Light, because everything we do is tainted by sin. We can NOT do this "walk" perfectly. ONLY by grace through faith is our walk made perfect, because He is perfect and His righteousness is credited to us by grace through faith in HIM.

                JESUS is the "Light of the world" and when we believe and trust in Him ONLY for our salvation, great and free, THEN we are IN the true Light and walking in it, for we are then indwelt by the Holy Spirit, Who enables us to bear good fruit for God. For Hebrews says "without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God."
                "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                  The scriptures have God extending His grace to them which walk in His light--are you claiming that walk is not the best we can do?

                  1 John 1:7 ----King James Version (KJV)
                  7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
                  Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
                  The "best we can do" is NOT walking in the Light,
                  The above scripture testifies those who "walk in the Light"--are cleansed from all sin by the Blood of Jesus Christ.

                  What are you claiming is any better than that?

                  because everything we do is tainted by sin.
                  Please reread the verse--those who walk in the light--are cleansed from all sin. Where do we find anything there testifying that walking in the Light is tainted with sin?

                  Bonnie--that seems to be the Lutheran perspective--but not the scriptural verse's point of perspective.

                  We can NOT do this "walk" perfectly. ONLY by grace through faith is our walk made perfect, because He is perfect and His righteousness is credited to us by grace through faith in HIM.
                  What is your evidence that "walking in the light" is not a manifestation of faith in Jesus Christ? That walking in the light is not integral to the term "faith in HIM"?

                  If our walk can be made perfect through faith--then our walk in not tainted with sin. That, in no way ---covers up or cancels out the fact the testimony of the scriptures affirming those who walk in the light--are those who receive the Blood of Christ unto the remission of sins.

                  What it does do--is question the validity of faith alone theology, IMO.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post The scriptures have God extending His grace to them which walk in His light--are you claiming that walk is not the best we can do?
                    1 John 1:7 ----King James Version (KJV)
                    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
                    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post The "best we can do" is NOT walking in the Light,
                    The above scripture testifies those who "walk in the Light"--are cleansed from all sin by the Blood of Jesus Christ.

                    What are you claiming is any better than that?

                    because everything we do is tainted by sin.
                    Please reread the verse--those who walk in the light--are cleansed from all sin. Where do we find anything there testifying that walking in the Light is tainted with sin?

                    Bonnie--that seems to be the Lutheran perspective--but not the scriptural verse's point of perspective.

                    We can NOT do this "walk" perfectly. ONLY by grace through faith is our walk made perfect, because He is perfect and His righteousness is credited to us by grace through faith in HIM.
                    What is your evidence that "walking in the light" is not a manifestation of faith in Jesus Christ? That walking in the light is not integral to the term "faith in HIM"?

                    If our walk can be made perfect through faith--then our walk in not tainted with sin. That, in no way ---covers up or cancels out the fact the testimony of the scriptures affirming those who walk in the light--are those who receive the Blood of Christ unto the remission of sins.

                    What it does do--is question the validity of faith alone theology, IMO.

                    Bump for Bonnie

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CrowCross View Post

                      The red is not biblical.
                      in
                      No, it isn't. Jesus said "be ye perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect." So, how can any of us be perfect, this side of heaven? We are sinners. There is ONLY one way to be "perfect" in God's eyes NOW. And it isn't by our own efforts, for James says if we keep the whole law, but stumble in one point, we are guilty of ALL of it.

                      But I'll bet you know the one and only way we can be perfect in God's eyes NOW, CC....in fact, every true, born-again Christian on CARM should know the answer. (Hint--it is NOT by our own efforts).
                      "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                      "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                      "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                      "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                      "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post



                        The above scripture testifies those who "walk in the Light"--are cleansed from all sin by the Blood of Jesus Christ.

                        What are you claiming is any better than that?



                        Please reread the verse--those who walk in the light--are cleansed from all sin. Where do we find anything there testifying that walking in the Light is tainted with sin?

                        Bonnie--that seems to be the Lutheran perspective--but not the scriptural verse's point of perspective.



                        What is your evidence that "walking in the light" is not a manifestation of faith in Jesus Christ? That walking in the light is not integral to the term "faith in HIM"?

                        If our walk can be made perfect through faith--then our walk in not tainted with sin. That, in no way ---covers up or cancels out the fact the testimony of the scriptures affirming those who walk in the light--are those who receive the Blood of Christ unto the remission of sins.

                        What it does do--is question the validity of faith alone theology, IMO.

                        Bump for Bonnie

                        (Acts 15, NASB)

                        We can ONLY walk in the Light AFTER we believe in Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior. He then cleanses our hearts from sin by faith in Him:

                        6 The apostles and the elders came together to [b]look into this [c]matter.7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that [d]in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”
                        So, here we have "faith alone." Our hearts are cleansed by faith in Jesus Christ and we are saved through the grace--underserved favor--of the Lord Jesus Christ. Exactly as Paul repeatedly tells us. Did Peter add works to what he said saves us?
                        "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                        "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                        "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                        "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                        "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
                          (Acts 15, NASB) We can ONLY walk in the Light AFTER we believe in Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior.
                          That won't help the theological problem of faith alone---as it still leaves the Blood of Jesus conditional upon walking in the light:

                          1 John 1:7 ----King James Version (KJV)
                          7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

                          If the Blood of Jesus unto the remission of sins-- is conditional upon walking in the Light--then that is our obedience for God's grace unto the remission of sins.

                          How do you fit that into Lutheran theology, as they preach one must be saved before they walk in the light. So--the question remains--can one be saved prior to the Blood of Jesus?

                          He then cleanses our hearts from sin by faith in Him:
                          That only connects walking in the Light as an integral component of faith in Jesus Christ.

                          6
                          The apostles and the elders came together to [b]look into this [c]matter.7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that [d]in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

                          So, here we have "faith alone."
                          Please do point out where the term "faith alone" is used once there.

                          Our hearts are cleansed by faith in Jesus Christ and we are saved through the grace--underserved favor--of the Lord Jesus Christ. Exactly as Paul repeatedly tells us. Did Peter add works to what he said saves us?
                          Peter testified works are necessary in order to be saved by God's grace:

                          Acts 2:38-42 ---King James Version (KJV)
                          38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
                          39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
                          40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
                          41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
                          42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

                          1 Peter 1:13-17--- King James Version (KJV)
                          13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
                          14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
                          15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
                          16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
                          17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

                          1 Peter 1:22--- King James Version (KJV)
                          22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

                          1 Peter 3:21-- King James Version (KJV)
                          21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

                          1 Peter 4:17--- King James Version (KJV)
                          17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

                          2 Peter 2:20-22 ---King James Version (KJV)
                          20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
                          21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
                          22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
                            in
                            No, it isn't. Jesus said "be ye perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect." So, how can any of us be perfect, this side of heaven? We are sinners. There is ONLY one way to be "perfect" in God's eyes NOW. And it isn't by our own efforts, for James says if we keep the whole law, but stumble in one point, we are guilty of ALL of it.

                            But I'll bet you know the one and only way we can be perfect in God's eyes NOW, CC....in fact, every true, born-again Christian on CARM should know the answer. (Hint--it is NOT by our own efforts).
                            Well, it's simple...outside of total sanctification, we are imputed the righteousness of Christ.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CrowCross View Post
                              Well, it's simple...outside of total sanctification, we are imputed the righteousness of Christ.
                              Certainly--one has to have the grace of God in order to receive the remission of sins--but how does that preclude obedience to Jesus Christ--in order to receive His grace unto the forgiveness of sins?

                              1 John 1:7 ----King James Version (KJV)
                              7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.



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