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  • Lgbtq

    I belong to LCMS. I joined a church earlier this year and started going here last July. I don't know when it happened. I don't know who it is, or what sex the person was born. However, our Pastor fired a teacher just before I started attending, because it said it was transgender. It was a very popular teacher. Last Sunday, there was a Congregation meeting regarding this issue. The Pastor said that the LCMS does not allow Transgender people to be teachers or Pastors. A lot of the congregation either wants him to leave the church. He said if they wanted to have a transgender teacher they should transfer to ELCA. However, if they do that those who do not leave LCMS would keep the church even if there were just a few.

    There was a women screaming, people who I know a little and respect speaking against him. I am strongly on the Pastor's side. It made me sick to listen to them attack him. He is very, very ill. He said he probably will have to stop being the Pastor early next year.

    Do you think that the LCMS should let LGBTQs be teachers? What are the scriptural reasons they can not be teachers?
    Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

    “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
    but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


    Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

  • #2
    Thekla, I'm not a Lutheran, but if I was, I would be LCMS. I appreciate your president, Harrison. There is a statement regarding transgenders at your website https://www.lcms.org It was well written and researched.

    Titus 2:7-8


    in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us.


    1 Corinthians 12:28 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    28
    And God has [a]appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then [b]miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.


    Ephesians 4:11 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    11
    And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,


    1 Timothy 1:7 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    7
    wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.


    2 Timothy 4:3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    3
    For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,


    James 3:1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    The Tongue Is a Fire
    3 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a [a]stricter judgment.


    2 Peter 2:1 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    The Rise of False Prophets
    2 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.


    Since your question regards teachers specifically, I'll do my best because I am a teacher. Scripture says that I will face a stricter judgment. Teachers are held to a higher standard and their personal lives are observed whether they like it or not.

    In this case, the teacher should be terminated. There are many jobs that teachers can do that don't involve being in the classroom.

    In no case are there any excuses to name call, engage in acts of hostility. The school and/or the church should uphold the biblical values taught. regarding sexuality.

    James reminds us to watch our tongues.

    James 1:26English Standard Version (ESV)

    26 If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

    Let me add that transgendered people have a 40% suicide rate. It's clear they are deeply troubled, and should be given compassion and love. Nevertheless, we don't want teachers in our classrooms who are so troubled. Nor do we want those mentioned in Romans 1 teaching our children.






    It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat…

    Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks, this is a very interesting post. I have to confess. I clicked on your link to the LCMS Website and I scanned a lot of the writings but I couldn't find the one you are talking about. Can you tell me which one it is?

      Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

      “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
      but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


      Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

      Comment


      • #4
        =Thekla;n5672493]Thanks, this is a very interesting post. I have to confess. I clicked on your link to the LCMS Website and I scanned a lot of the writings but I couldn't find the one you are talking about. Can you tell me which one it is?
        The main page of the website lcms has some links. I chose social justice, then sexuality. There is another link you can choose 'Gender Identify or Gender dysphoria.'
        It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat…

        Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks, I found it.
          Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

          “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
          but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


          Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Thekla View Post
            I belong to LCMS. I joined a church earlier this year and started going here last July. I don't know when it happened. I don't know who it is, or what sex the person was born. However, our Pastor fired a teacher just before I started attending, because it said it was transgender. It was a very popular teacher. Last Sunday, there was a Congregation meeting regarding this issue. The Pastor said that the LCMS does not allow Transgender people to be teachers or Pastors. A lot of the congregation either wants him to leave the church. He said if they wanted to have a transgender teacher they should transfer to ELCA. However, if they do that those who do not leave LCMS would keep the church even if there were just a few.

            There was a women screaming, people who I know a little and respect speaking against him. I am strongly on the Pastor's side. It made me sick to listen to them attack him. He is very, very ill. He said he probably will have to stop being the Pastor early next year.

            Do you think that the LCMS should let LGBTQs be teachers? What are the scriptural reasons they can not be teachers?
            Oh, dear...you have the worst fortune with LCMS churches...

            I myself would have no problem with a transgender teacher that had had an operation to change gender so long as the teacher did not go around advertising it to the children or trying to push LGBT rights and agenda. I don't know that much about it, but I do seem to remember reading years ago, that those who get sex change operations are not gay, but maybe have a glitch in their brain whereby their brain is one gender and their body another. But I am no expert on that.

            But I suppose the pastor might be worried that if he allows this teacher to work there, it might open the door for openly gay teachers to be hired.

            If I may make a suggestion--maybe join a SMALL church, that does NOT have a school attached to it! Since the problems you encounter all seem to be attached to the schools.
            "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
            "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
            "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
            "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
            "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

            Comment


            • #7
              Romans 1:26-32
              26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
              28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
              No conviction,No conversion
              John 16:8
              And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

              Comment


              • #8
                1 Kings 14:24
                24 And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the Lord cast out before the children of Israel.
                No conviction,No conversion
                John 16:8
                And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't buy the argument that gender is not assigned and synonymously defined by god-given anatomy. Anything in the brain that says otherwise needs educating, not unlike faulty consciences.
                  In that paper originally referenced I would agree that 'before a person can confess not being a thing, the person must rightly understand what a thing is according to scropture.' (sic)
                  I would have a strong inclination to believe the conscience is the problem in following social ideologies. Culture has a way of making very strong impressions on our consciences not unlike family, friends, co-workers, etc.

                  Nic
                  Last edited by Nic; 11-07-18, 06:32 PM.
                  1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
                  1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

                    Oh, dear...you have the worst fortune with LCMS churches...

                    I myself would have no problem with a transgender teacher that had had an operation to change gender so long as the teacher did not go around advertising it to the children or trying to push LGBT rights and agenda. I don't know that much about it, but I do seem to remember reading years ago, that those who get sex change operations are not gay, but maybe have a glitch in their brain whereby their brain is one gender and their body another. But I am no expert on that.

                    But I suppose the pastor might be worried that if he allows this teacher to work there, it might open the door for openly gay teachers to be hired.

                    If I may make a suggestion--maybe join a SMALL church, that does NOT have a school attached to it! Since the problems you encounter all seem to be attached to the schools.
                    I don't think the problems are just with the schools, I live in a big city. There was a girl in 5th grade who said she was transgender. I don't know if that had anything to do with the teacher or the fact that her mother got divorced and lives with another woman. They left this church before I started. The elementary school closed and now we have a nursery school. All of the teachers from the school are gone and ones for young kids were hired. I'd have to think that the missing teacher was for kindergarten but I don't have any info. I'm going to have to ask some questions.

                    From what I understood the people talking about, I don't think that the teacher made the change physically yet.
                    Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

                    “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
                    but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


                    Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nic View Post
                      I don't buy the argument that gender is not assigned and synonymously defined by god-given anatomy. Anything in the brain that says otherwise needs educating, not unlike faulty consciences.
                      In that paper originally referenced I would agree that 'before a person can confess not being a thing, the person must rightly understand what a thing is according to scropture.' (sic)
                      I would have a strong inclination to believe the conscience is the problem in following social ideologies. Culture has a way of making very strong impressions on our consciences not unlike family, friends, co-workers, etc.

                      Nic
                      I agree. I wonder if most people who are transgender come from divorced families and are raised by women.
                      Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

                      “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
                      but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


                      Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Thekla View Post

                        I agree. I wonder if most people who are transgender come from divorced families and are raised by women.
                        Just a stab in the dark, I suspect that would have little to with it. I do suspect there exists perhaps a type of neglect, then throw in the North side of Chicago or San Francisco societal battle cries for anything goes and the yield on the population produces some net amount of samplings. The more it's in the news or advocated as a right viable alternative, the more confusion is seeded in the families and subsequent children. Making it acceptable is a direct effort to remove God and from our lives. Good agnostics and atheists often see themselves as good and just. They want to spread their anti-gospel of a godless society is just as good if not better than the one Christians embrace thinking they prove God to be a liar or rather non-existent in their eyes.

                        Nic

                        1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
                        1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The. Creation account, male and female He created them. And God said it was good. X and Y chromosomes don't change so there is no reason to lie to the person or the kids.
                          Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

                          Peace,
                          BJ -Bear
                          VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
                          WELS

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Thekla View Post

                            I don't think the problems are just with the schools, I live in a big city. There was a girl in 5th grade who said she was transgender. I don't know if that had anything to do with the teacher or the fact that her mother got divorced and lives with another woman. They left this church before I started. The elementary school closed and now we have a nursery school. All of the teachers from the school are gone and ones for young kids were hired. I'd have to think that the missing teacher was for kindergarten but I don't have any info. I'm going to have to ask some questions.

                            From what I understood the people talking about, I don't think that the teacher made the change physically yet.
                            Okay. I know you live near a big city, but Illinois has an LCMS church practically around every corner--three districts in one state!--and surely one of them would be small enough NOT to have a school attached. But then, if you just have a nursery school....children that age would not understand about transgender roles, anyway. But it is complicated, isn't it?
                            "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                            "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                            "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                            "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                            "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

                              But then, if you just have a nursery school....children that age would not understand about transgender roles, anyway. But it is complicated, isn't it?
                              Yeah let’s put the pervert in with the Young children.......shouldn’t be a problem with that.......Choke Choke Puke.

                              Really great advice......got anymore nuggets of wisdom to share ?
                              No conviction,No conversion
                              John 16:8
                              And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                              Comment

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