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Everlasting priesthood

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  • Everlasting priesthood

    Could any Lutheran explain to us what priesthood this is a reference to?

    Exodus 40:15 ---King James Version (KJV)
    15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.


  • #2
    It is a reference to the OT priesthood.
    Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

    Peace,
    BJ -Bear
    VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
    WELS

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
      It is a reference to the OT priesthood.
      Hi BJ:

      What OT priesthood?

      Comment


      • #4
        The Levitical and Aaronic priesthood. It was fulfilled in Christ Jesus and what He did for us on the cross, but now we have the priesthood of all believers, a royal priesthood to God with Christ Jesus as our great High Priest, after the order of Melchizedek, because He lives forever to intercede for us believers before God. No human alive can make that claim. Instead of animal sacrifices, we now offer the "sacrifice of thanksgiving" to God and our prayers and praises, which are much pleasing to God. SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES, not animal ones.

        Rom. 12:1, ESV

        I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
        And

        Phil. 2:16, ESV

        Even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all.
        Hebrews 13, NASB
        God-pleasing Sacrifices


        15 Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name. 16 And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.
        And to continue from Heb. 13:

        Benediction

        20 Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord, 21 equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom bet he glory forever and ever. Amen.
        "Blood of the ETERNAL covenant." What blood is that? Jesus' Christ Holy Blood. The blood of lambs, bulls, and goats shed for the forgiveness of sins under the old Covenant prefigured what was perfectly sacrificed in the perfect blood of Jesus Christ, the ultimate and final and perfect Lamb of God, Who alone can take our sins away. Thus, the old Levitical/Aaronic priesthood in the blood of lambs, goats, and bulls PREFIGURED the priesthood of ALL believers in the New and BETTER covenant in the blood of the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world, which the blood of animals could never do. Thus, this priesthood that you quote is "eternal." God was a great One for prefiguring in the Old Covenant what was fulfilled and perfected in the New and BETTER covenant of grace in the blood of Jesus Christ.
        Last edited by Bonnie; 11-29-18, 03:52 PM.
        "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
        "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
        "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
        "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
        "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
          The Levitical and Aaronic priesthood. It was fulfilled in Christ Jesus and what He did for us on the cross, but now we have the priesthood of all believers, a royal priesthood to God with Christ Jesus as our great High Priest, after the order of Melchizedek, because He lives forever to intercede for us believers before God. No human alive can make that claim. Instead of animal sacrifices, we now offer the "sacrifice of thanksgiving" to God and our prayers and praises, which are much pleasing to God. SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES, not animal ones.
          No one has questioned Jesus died on the cross for all mankind--nor that His Blood redeems us, nor that animal sacrifices ever took away sins.

          Where do we find anyone questioning that?

          Where do we find the term "priesthood of all believers"?

          What priesthood do you claim is the "priesthood of all believers?

          "Blood of the ETERNAL covenant." What blood is that? Jesus' Christ Holy Blood.
          No one has claimed any different.

          Is this the Blood you refer to?

          1 John 1:7 ---King James Version (KJV)
          7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

          Bonnie--all that talk isn't going to bring faith alone theology in harmony with the Biblical witness. The difference between Lutheran theology and the Biblical witness--is the conditions upon how one receives the Blood of Jesus Christ unto the remission of sins. The Bible has the condition of walking in the light--the Lutherans claim it has nothing to do with what we do, as acts of obedience.

          The blood of lambs, bulls, and goats shed for the forgiveness of sins under the old Covenant prefigured what was perfectly sacrificed in the perfect blood of Jesus Christ, the ultimate and final and perfect Lamb of God, Who alone can take our sins away.
          I agree. What has this to do with the fact the Lutherans preach a faith alone theology for the Blood unto the forgiveness of sins--and the Biblical text preaches only those who obey and follow God receive it:

          Acts 2:38-42 ---King James Version (KJV)
          38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
          39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
          40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
          41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
          42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

          Thus, the old Levitical/Aaronic priesthood in the blood of lambs, goats, and bulls PREFIGURED the priesthood of ALL believers in the New and BETTER covenant in the blood of the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world, which the blood of animals could never do. Thus, this priesthood that you quote is "eternal." God was a great One for prefiguring in the Old Covenant what was fulfilled and perfected in the New and BETTER covenant of grace in the blood of Jesus Christ.
          Again--where do we find anywhere in the OT or NT--the priesthood of all believers?

          Again--if Peter was quoting Exodus 19--then where in Exodus do we find the priesthood of all believers? That's something Luther made up after he was defrocked and excommunicated from the priesthood.

          And if the Aaronic priesthood is eternal--then it is not gone.

          The LDS do agree with one of your points--there is a priesthood which does attend to the New Covenant--and that is the Melchizedek priesthood. There was never any other priesthoods other than the Levitical(Aaronic) or the Melchizedek priesthood.

          So--could you identify which priesthood this was?

          Revelation 1:6 ---King James Version (KJV)
          6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.





          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

            Hi BJ:

            What OT priesthood?
            The one referred to in Ex. 19.
            Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

            Peace,
            BJ -Bear
            VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
            WELS

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
              The one referred to in Ex. 19.
              Which was???

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                Which was???
                Read that section of Scripture and you will find that it is the people of Israel.
                Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

                Peace,
                BJ -Bear
                VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
                WELS

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
                  Read that section of Scripture and you will find that it is the people of Israel.
                  Hi BJ--

                  I don't recall asking who the verse was addressed to--but rather--specifically, what priesthood was Exodus 19 a reference to?

                  IE--was it the Levitical priesthood--or the Melchizedek?


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                    Hi BJ--

                    I don't recall asking who the verse was addressed to--but rather--specifically, what priesthood was Exodus 19 a reference to?

                    IE--was it the Levitical priesthood--or the Melchizedek?

                    It was the kingdom of priests, those to whom the Lord was speaking through Moses, the people of Israel.

                    Edited to add: Maybe a question will help clarify the matter. How can people be priests without having the office?
                    Last edited by BJ BEAR; 11-30-18, 01:20 PM.
                    Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

                    Peace,
                    BJ -Bear
                    VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
                    WELS

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
                      It was the kingdom of priests, those to whom the Lord was speaking through Moses, the people of Israel.
                      What priesthood did those "kingdom of priests" have?

                      Was it the Levitical--or the Melchizedek?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        They had the office given to them when the Lord said, "You will be to me a kingdom of priests."
                        Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

                        Peace,
                        BJ -Bear
                        VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
                        WELS

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
                          They had the office given to them when the Lord said, "You will be to me a kingdom of priests."
                          If that is true--then where do we find the "priesthood of all believers" in the OT?

                          Are you claiming just those of the Levitical tribe were believers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                            No one has questioned Jesus died on the cross for all mankind--nor that His Blood redeems us, nor that animal sacrifices ever took away sins.

                            Where do we find anyone questioning that?

                            Where do we find the term "priesthood of all believers"?

                            What priesthood do you claim is the "priesthood of all believers?



                            No one has claimed any different.

                            Is this the Blood you refer to?

                            1 John 1:7 ---King James Version (KJV)
                            7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

                            Bonnie--all that talk isn't going to bring faith alone theology in harmony with the Biblical witness. The difference between Lutheran theology and the Biblical witness--is the conditions upon how one receives the Blood of Jesus Christ unto the remission of sins. The Bible has the condition of walking in the light--the Lutherans claim it has nothing to do with what we do, as acts of obedience.



                            I agree. What has this to do with the fact the Lutherans preach a faith alone theology for the Blood unto the forgiveness of sins--and the Biblical text preaches only those who obey and follow God receive it:

                            Acts 2:38-42 ---King James Version (KJV)
                            38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
                            39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
                            40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
                            41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
                            42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.



                            Again--where do we find anywhere in the OT or NT--the priesthood of all believers?

                            Again--if Peter was quoting Exodus 19--then where in Exodus do we find the priesthood of all believers? That's something Luther made up after he was defrocked and excommunicated from the priesthood.

                            And if the Aaronic priesthood is eternal--then it is not gone.

                            The LDS do agree with one of your points--there is a priesthood which does attend to the New Covenant--and that is the Melchizedek priesthood. There was never any other priesthoods other than the Levitical(Aaronic) or the Melchizedek priesthood.

                            So--could you identify which priesthood this was?

                            Revelation 1:6 ---King James Version (KJV)
                            6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


                            "Priesthood of all believers" is just the descriptive term for something the Bible describes. The exact words may not be there, but the concept is. Other phrases used to describe concepts found in the bible are: "virgin birth, vicarious atonement; Triune Godhead," etc.

                            Simple.

                            You seem to think that the priesthood of all believers must be either Levitical/Aaronic or Melchizedek. It is neither. It is the New Covenant priesthood in the blood of the Lamb of God; the priesthood of all believers. It is NOT like the priesthood in the OC. And ONLY Jesus holds the Melchizedek priesthood, since ONLY HE lives forever to intercede for us with the Father. No human being alive can make that claim. And the NEW covenant is NOT like the old covenant:

                            Hebrews 8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

                            A Better Ministry


                            8 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister [a]in the sanctuary and [b]in the true [c]tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses [d]was warned by God when he was about to erect the [e]tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.”6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. A New Covenant


                            7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,

                            “Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
                            [f]When I will effect a new covenant
                            With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
                            9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
                            On the day when I took them by the hand
                            To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
                            For they did not continue in My covenant,
                            And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
                            10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
                            After those days, says the Lord:
                            [g]I will put My laws into their minds,
                            And I will write them on their hearts.
                            And I will be their God,
                            And they shall be My people.
                            11 “And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,
                            And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
                            For all will know Me,
                            From [h]the least to the greatest of them.
                            12 “For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
                            And I will remember their sins no more.”

                            13 [i]When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is [j]ready to disappear.
                            So, the NEW and BETTER covenant is NOT like the old one. The priesthood of all believers is NOT like the Levitical/Aaronic priesthood at all. They offered up animal sacrifices; the priesthood of all believers offers up SPIRITUAL sacrifices, in prayers, praise, and thanksgiving. And Jesus, of the tribe of Judah, not Levi, is our great High Priest. So, ergo, there has been a change in priesthood; so there is also a change in "law."

                            1HEB 7)11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord [f]was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of [g]physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,

                            “You are a priest forever
                            According to the order of Melchizedek.”

                            18 For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. 20 And inasmuch as it was not without an oath 21 (for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him,

                            “The Lord has sworn
                            And will not change His mind,
                            ‘You are a priest forever’”);

                            22 so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
                            Biblegateway.

                            We are in the NEW covenant and it is NOT LIKE the old covenant in the Levitical/Aaronic priesthood. There is a change in priesthood and so a change in "law"--and now ALL born-again believers are a kingdom, priests to God our Father, with Jesus Christ as our great High Priest.

                            Simple.

                            Oh, and this thread isn't about faith alone, or the other stuff you brought up, but about the priesthood of all believers. Please focus on the OP.
                            Last edited by Bonnie; 12-01-18, 09:39 AM.
                            "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                            "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                            "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                            "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                            "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dberrie2000

                              That seems to be the claim of the faith alone with much of the theology they preach. Just as they claim faith alone theology is found in the Bible:

                              James 2:24 ---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
                              24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.


                              Sorry but we aren't discussing faith alone. That isn't what your OP is about. It is about the "everlasting priesthood." That is what I have been discussing with you. I will not be diverted. And we have discussed it time without number on here, like here:

                              https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/ch...lutheran/page2

                              Now, kindly deal with my verses about the priesthood.
                              "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                              "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                              "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                              "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                              "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                              Comment

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