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Everlasting priesthood

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  • dberrie2000
    started a topic Everlasting priesthood

    Everlasting priesthood

    Could any Lutheran explain to us what priesthood this is a reference to?

    Exodus 40:15 ---King James Version (KJV)
    15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.


  • Conqueror
    replied
    Originally posted by AlFin View Post
    I didn't see where these questions were answered:

    1 Peter 1:1
    Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect,

    1 Peter 2:4-6
    As you come to him, the living Stone — rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him —you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

    1 Peter 2:9-10
    But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
    A royal priesthood, who represents
    the people before God through sacerdotalism?


    .


    Leave a comment:


  • AlFin
    replied
    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Where do we find the term "priesthood of all believers"?

    What priesthood do you claim is the "priesthood of all believers?
    I didn't see where these questions were answered:

    1 Peter 1:1
    Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's elect,

    1 Peter 2:4-6
    As you come to him, the living Stone — rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him —you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

    1 Peter 2:9-10
    But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bonnie
    replied
    Originally posted by oceancoast View Post

    of course you do.. we who are non-Lutherans know better than you , just as you seem to assert you know more about Mormons than a Mormon. Think about that.. next time your on the Mormon forum.. try for once to get our beliefs straight.
    I do my best to get your church's beliefs straight. I have never knowingly posted anything false on the Mormon board, and am perfectly willing to admit when I make a mistake, but I must be shown proof.And I rarely am. But this is the Lutheran board, not the Mormonism board. Please focus, OC.

    Leave a comment:


  • oceancoast
    replied
    Originally posted by Nic View Post
    DBerry, If everyone is born saved then the right thing to to do is kill everyone as soon as they are born or before the invented aged of accountability. That would be serve as an ultimate act of love and as a good work because the infants' and children best interests (outcomes) are foremost above every other outcome.
    Except such behavior is strictly forbidden right?

    Leave a comment:


  • oceancoast
    replied
    Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post

    It is a reference to an unsympathetic account of an unusual circumstance that avoids mentioning Jesus. Those who still reject Jesus have explanations for the account just as they have explanations for Scripture so I'll move on from that minor extra biblical account to a biblical account with the same theme.
    And yet you never actually provided a reference to this unsympathetic account.


    Back to the prophesied time of the Messiah, according to Haggai 2:6-9 the time of the glory of God which is greater than that of the first temple is the time of the second temple. "For so says Jehovah of hosts: Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land. And I will shake all the nations; and the desire of all nations shall come. And I will fill this house with glory, says Jehovah of hosts. The silver is Mine, and the gold is Mine, says Jehovah of hosts. The glory of this latter house shall be greater than that of the former, says Jehovah of hosts. And in this place I will give peace, says Jehovah of hosts." LITV

    In the past the Lord's presence or glory was known through the fire, cloud, etc., but in the last days He dwelt among His people.
    I'm sorry, but how is your subjective interpretation of haggai equate to objective support of your belief? What is the oldest manuscript that contains the haggai verses in question? 10 century ce?





    I have given you evidence, but you reject it because you are looking for a particular type of anachronistic evidence.
    nonsense.. I have not asked for anachronistic evidence..and you haven't produced objective evidence supporting your beliefs...


    It is again like someone two thousand years in the future looking back and rejecting the existence of you and I by saying, "Well, you've only provided photos, documents, and DNA but everyone knows that is unreliable and can be forged. You don't have any evidence that conforms to our new whiz-bang-post-modern-modern-modern way of thinking about evidence.
    no that is not what I'm doing...in contrast, you are saying your assertions are fact just because someone much later after the fact wrote a story..a quite fantastic story...but here is the catch...there are lots of fantastic stories that people write..im willing to bet you do not consider them true...so what objective basis do you have that the story you do believe is fact not fiction?



    The evidence that you reject the Scriptural and historical evidence is demonstrated again through your comments above, for example, "I accept them for what they are. The scriptures are HIGHLY subject to personal opinion as to their meaning.. They are also not a reliable historical witness.. they are full of contradictions. The Historical back up to the claims in the Scripture is what is severely lacking , and you seem to assert you had the backup.. but I guess you don't. "

    Also, the quote above is further evidence that you are not a believer in the Judeo-Christian sense. The Christian revelation, the revelation of the true Christ is objective, it is a record of what the love of God in Christ Jesus has done, is doing, and will do for sinners. That revelation stands regardless of the subjective opinions of sinful men.
    that's odd... how does my saying I ACCEPT THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE constitute a rejection? Perhaps you struggle with the meaning of the words "Accept" AND "Reject".

    What I don't accept is YOUR unproven imaginatary views of scripture and history. YOU said you could prove them, but so far the only thing you are proving is that if someone doesn't agree with your unproven presumptions you'll resort to ad homs.. but that is what I have learned to expect from other Lutherans here.. they are long on ad hom , and attacks on the beliefs of others and bankrupt when it comes to defending their own false beliefs.. maybe that's why Lutheran membership numbers are in free fall

    Leave a comment:


  • Thekla
    replied
    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

    That's quite a philosophy. I suppose we could further that philosophy--and ask why God didn't just take the tree out of the Garden before Adam and Eve had a chance to partake of it? He was the One who put it there to begin with--knowing ahead what would happen? Why did the tree even have to be there?

    But the experiences we gain in this life are invaluable, and part of the plan of salvation, IMO--and so was the Fall.

    How does that somehow change the fact there was an Atonement--and it was for all mankind? That children might reach an age of accountability?

    Galatians 4:1-2--- King James Version (KJV)
    1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
    2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

    That all will be judged according to their works--after death--and that for life or damnation?

    John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    That God absolved all from the condemnation of the Fall--through His Atonement?


    Romans 5:18--- King James Version (KJV)
    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    Where do we find anyone being condemned to Hell solely because of the Fall--after the Atonement? As the above testimony shows--all men are judged according to their own works--and not Adam's.


    1 John 1: 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

    When the judgement takes place if we have confessed our sins. They will not be judged.

    Leave a comment:


  • dberrie2000
    replied
    Originally posted by Nic View Post
    DBerry, If everyone is born saved then the right thing to to do is kill everyone as soon as they are born or before the invented aged of accountability. That would be serve as an ultimate act of love and as a good work because the infants' and children best interests (outcomes) are foremost above every other outcome.
    That's quite a philosophy. I suppose we could further that philosophy--and ask why God didn't just take the tree out of the Garden before Adam and Eve had a chance to partake of it? He was the One who put it there to begin with--knowing ahead what would happen? Why did the tree even have to be there?

    But the experiences we gain in this life are invaluable, and part of the plan of salvation, IMO--and so was the Fall.

    How does that somehow change the fact there was an Atonement--and it was for all mankind? That children might reach an age of accountability?

    Galatians 4:1-2--- King James Version (KJV)
    1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
    2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

    That all will be judged according to their works--after death--and that for life or damnation?

    John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    That God absolved all from the condemnation of the Fall--through His Atonement?


    Romans 5:18--- King James Version (KJV)
    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    Where do we find anyone being condemned to Hell solely because of the Fall--after the Atonement? As the above testimony shows--all men are judged according to their own works--and not Adam's.



    Leave a comment:


  • Nic
    replied
    DBerry, If everyone is born saved then the right thing to to do is kill everyone as soon as they are born or before the invented aged of accountability. That would be serve as an ultimate act of love and as a good work because the infants' and children best interests (outcomes) are foremost above every other outcome.

    Leave a comment:


  • dberrie2000
    replied
    Originally posted by Nic View Post
    Well the easiest response is the Lord freely gives or redeems.
    Freely Redeems all from the Fall--yes. That's a free gift to all men.

    Romans 5:18--- King James Version (KJV)
    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    All men are now "justified of life"--because of His Atonement.

    Those who do not meet the conditions of the Redeemer--have to consign to the "second death":

    Revelation 20:13-14--- King James Version (KJV)
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    The first death--all were absolved from, as a free gift to all men.

    The immediate context has been offered to you ad nauseum and you continue to reject that, so I'm keeping my answer broad so that you can see that being freely given something requires nothing on your part.
    I don't believe anything is required in Jesus Christ's free gift to all men. Not faith, belief, obedience, endurance--nothing. It was Jesus Christ's perfection--- plus nothing.

    That delivered us from the first death--both spiritually, and physically--as it relates to the Fall. We no longer have to answer for Adam's choice, which we had nothing to do with. Mankind no longer is condemned due to the Fall. We are all born free, due to the Atonement.

    That's why all babies are born saved--and have no need of repentance or baptism--until the time appointed of the Father--where they reach accountability.(normally)

    Now--we answer for our own choices---and suffer the second death, if we refuse to follow the Redeemer's conditions:

    John 5:28-29---King James Version (KJV)
    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.




    Leave a comment:


  • Nic
    replied
    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

    I agree--as God has redeemed all men from the Fall--as a free gift:

    Romans 5:18--- King James Version (KJV)
    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    IOW--all men have been redeemed from the automatic condemnation which befell all men due to the Fall, and now--all men are justified of life, IE--all men now have the opportunity to inherit eternal life--by meeting the conditions of the Redeemer:

    Hebrews 5:9 ---King James Version (KJV)
    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    We now answer for our own choices--and not Adam's.

    Romans 2:5-11 ---King James Version (KJV)
    5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
    6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
    10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.



    Then please do that in context of the given scripture:

    Luke 12:42-46--- King James Version (KJV)
    42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
    43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
    44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
    45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
    46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

    How does one fit that into faith alone theology?
    Well the easiest response is the Lord freely gives or redeems. The immediate context has been offered to you ad nauseum and you continue to reject that, so I'm keeping my answer broad so that you can see that being freely given something requires nothing on your part.

    Leave a comment:


  • dberrie2000
    replied
    Originally posted by Nic View Post
    You start with immediate context and work your way to wider and finally the widest context. The widest context I can think of is man is fallen, God freely redeems/rescues fallen man.
    I agree--as God has redeemed all men from the Fall--as a free gift:

    Romans 5:18--- King James Version (KJV)
    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    IOW--all men have been redeemed from the automatic condemnation which befell all men due to the Fall, and now--all men are justified of life, IE--all men now have the opportunity to inherit eternal life--by meeting the conditions of the Redeemer:

    Hebrews 5:9 ---King James Version (KJV)
    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    We now answer for our own choices--and not Adam's.

    Romans 2:5-11 ---King James Version (KJV)
    5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
    6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
    10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

    Generally when we start with immediate context we are thinking of a pericope, then broaden that to a chapter or more, finally the book itself, then in its widest sense the sum total from Genesis to Revelation.
    Then please do that in context of the given scripture:

    Luke 12:42-46--- King James Version (KJV)
    42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
    43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
    44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
    45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
    46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

    How does one fit that into faith alone theology?

    Leave a comment:


  • Nic
    replied
    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

    So--what wider context do you fit this into?

    Luke 12:42-46--- King James Version (KJV)
    42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
    43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
    44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
    45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
    46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

    How does one fit that into faith alone theology?
    You start with immediate context and work your way to wider and finally the widest context. The widest context I can think of is man is fallen, God freely redeems/rescues fallen man. Generally when we start with immediate context we are thinking of a pericope, then broaden that to a chapter or more, finally the book itself, then in its widest sense the sum total from Genesis to Revelation.

    Nic

    Leave a comment:


  • dberrie2000
    replied
    Originally posted by Nic View Post
    That's a fair question and probably at times they are but not unlike you in the way of a shorthand for the meaning of an asserted teaching. I think what solves the proof texting delimma, is to look at immediate context followed out to a wider and widest context. That should resolve whether or not a proof text is indeed as asserted by one or the other.
    So--what wider context do you fit this into?

    Luke 12:42-46--- King James Version (KJV)
    42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
    43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
    44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
    45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
    46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

    How does one fit that into faith alone theology?

    Leave a comment:


  • Nic
    replied
    [QUOTE=Nic;n5751680That's a fair question and probably at times they are but not unlike you in the way of a shorthand for the meaning of an asserted teaching. I think what solves the proof texting delimma, is to look at immediate context followed out to a wider and widest context. That should resolve whether or not a proof text is indeed as asserted by one or the other.[/QUOTE ERRONEOUSLY THAT IS.

    Leave a comment:

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