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FYI-A short blurb about the Roman Cult of Mithras

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  • #76

    Objective reality Christ has died, Christ has risen. Christ will come again.
    You should look up passion in the context of Christ. It's a Christian reference which still seems quite foreign to you. It means Christ's suffering and death. You earlier objections are noted in this thread.
    Now spin it again.
    Last edited by Nic; 02-04-19, 08:46 AM.
    1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
    1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Nic View Post
      Objective reality Christ has died, Christ has risen. Christ will come again.
      once again you engage in the fallacy of presenting your SUBJECTIVE BELIEFS as OBJECTIVE REALITY.. They aren't.

      You should look up passion in the context of Christ.
      No need, I understand.. but the context uses the term Passion (Captialized)

      It's a Christian reference which still seems quite foreign to you
      Talking to the mirror are you?

      . It means Christ's suffering and death. You earlier objections are noted in this thread.
      Now spin it again.
      The only one Spinning things is yourself and your friends who have proven beyond reasonable doubt that you don't know the difference between Subjective Imagination and objective reality.. I think they have clinical term for such a condition. At least I can admit my beliefs in Christ are Subjective.. I can't prove Christ was resurrected. It's a BELIEF.. it's sad when someone can't distinguish the difference.
      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

      We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

      Comment


      • #78
        You're reaching and suffering (LoL) from the fallacy of goalposts moving.
        Scripture never capitalizes passion to mean suffering. Now it's your turn, do what do and spin it again.
        Last edited by Nic; 02-04-19, 05:13 PM.
        1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
        1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Nic View Post
          You're reaching and suffering (LoL) from the fallacy of goalposts moving.
          I haven't moved any goalposts... so the typical false accusation we have come to expect from some so-called Christians

          Scripture never capitalizes passion to mean suffering.
          I never claimed it did.. your spin failed


          Now it's your turn, do what do and spin it again.
          all the spin is coming from you.,
          “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

          We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

          Comment


          • #80
            You knit pick, dodge, deny and redefine terms too much for any meaningful dialogue and you're always the only person in the thread who has the all "right" answers. Take another bow.
            There's a term and a fallacy for that.
            1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
            1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

            Comment


            • #81
              Objective reality means fact in this thread if you haven't figured that out yet.
              Of course you explained how the civil war can't be proven or some such? Then you labored later about reasonable reliability but then scoff at the scriptures while carrying the flag for the ridiculous Mithras-Judaeo marriage to give rise to Christianity. Your write like an intelligent person with some critical thinking skills but you're endorsement of the latter undermines your credibility and paints you as a propagandist.
              Last edited by Nic; 02-04-19, 09:24 PM.
              1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
              1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Nic View Post
                You knit pick, dodge, deny and redefine terms too much for any meaningful dialogue and you're always the only person in the thread who has the all "right" answers. Take another bow.
                There's a term and a fallacy for that.
                You must be talking to the mirror again..
                “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Nic View Post
                  Objective reality means fact in this thread if you haven't figured that out yet.
                  Wow.. you figured that out all on your own? Objective reality means that it's independent to your imagined beliefs.. It's a FACT that can be independently observed and verified. A story, such as the Christian story.. "Passion of Christ".. the "text" of the story is an objective fact. What the text is describing is not objective reality, it's just a story, which may or may not be able to be proven. Like someone writes a story about seeing BigFoot in the mountains.. he describes the scenery, the sounds and even pictures of foot prints.. Now the 'text' of his story is objective anyone can read it, but the truth of what was described is not.. that becomes a matter of subjective imagination.. what you choose to believe.


                  Of course you explained how the civil war can't be proven or some such?
                  That's correct. Not with absolute certainty. History is not something you can repeat in a lab with controls to prove.. You only have a 'story' about how it happened, and then you look for evidence that backs up the story.. For MOST of the story we don't actually have evidence just some hearsay and the evidence we have can be explained in different ways..Only when the preponderance of evidence points in a give direction that you can say with relative certainty that something happened in such and such away. Thus all that history can do is give us a most REASONABLE and probable explanation for the evidence at hand. Any explanation of evidence that involves 'Miracles' is by definition of a miracle, the LEAST probable explanation.. Like saying the North won the Civil war because Grant shot lighting bolts out of his eyes.

                  Then you labored later about reasonable reliability but then scoff at the scriptures while carrying the flag for the ridiculous Mithras-Judaeo marriage to give rise to Christianity.
                  Your sentence is incoherent.. where do I scoff at scriptures? or carried a flag for a Mithras-Judaeo marriage.. I simply presented a more plausible explanation for Christianity that can be supported by the tangible objective evidence didn't involve any miracles. It's not the ONLY explanation, but it is a more reasonable explanation that didn't involve miracles.

                  Your write like an intelligent person with some critical thinking skills but you're endorsement of the latter undermines your credibility and paints you as a propagandist.
                  I have repeated over and over , I personally believe the Christian story, I just am challenging folks here to PROVE the story.. or admit they can't. It's simple thing to admit when something you believe can't be proven.. One of you here said you could.. so it appears that didn't happen, and instead of humbly admitting he couldn't actually prove his faith.. he engaged in ad-homs and left. Real Christian like. That's what I am learning here on the Lutheran board.. Just how Lutherans behave.

                  I wonder if I went down the street to Concorida university here and ask them these questions what kind of response they will say? would they immediately engage in ad-homs? I wonder if it's a behavior they teach.
                  Last edited by oceancoast; 02-04-19, 10:34 PM.
                  “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                  We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
                    Wow.. you figured that out all on your own? Objective reality means that it's independent to your imagined beliefs.. It's a FACT that can be independently observed and verified. A story, such as the Christian story.. "Passion of Christ".. the 'story' is an objective fact. The truth behind the story is not.



                    That's correct. Not with absolute certainty. History is not something you can repeat in a lab with controls to prove.. You only have a 'story' about how it happened, and then you look for evidence that backs up the story.. For MOST of the story we don't actually have evidence just some hearsay and the evidence we have can be explained in different ways..Only when the preponderance of evidence points in a give direction that you can say with relative certainty that something happened in such and such away. Thus all that history can do is give us a most REASONABLE and probable explanation for the evidence at hand. Any explanation of evidence that involves 'Miracles' is by definition of a miracle, the LEAST probable explanation.. Like saying the North won the Civil war because Grant shot lighting bolts out of his eyes.

                    Your sentence is incoherent.. where do I scoff at scriptures? or carried a flag for a Mithras-Judaeo marriage.. I simply presented a more plausible explanation for Christianity that can be supported by the tangible objective evidence didn't involve any miracles. It's not the ONLY explanation, but it is a more reasonable explanation that didn't involve miracles.


                    I have repeated over and over , I believe the Christian story, I just am challenging folks here to PROVE their story.. or admit they can't. It's simple thing to admit when something you believe can't be proven.. One of you here said you could.. so it appears that didn't happen, and instead of humbly admitting he couldn't actually prove his faith.. he engaged in ad-homs and left. Real Christian like. That's what I am learning here on the Lutheran board.. Just how Lutherans behave.

                    I wonder if I went down the street to Concorida university here and ask them these questions what kind of response they will say? would they immediately engage in ad-homs? I wonder if it's a behavior they teach.
                    I've been guilty of mockery here, yours is noted too.
                    No, you are the one who scoffed when I translated for you what was said because you reached for a dictionary to define passion of the true Christ in objection to Christ's suffering and death way back in post #62 where I clearly said same as you mock now.
                    Here's a news flash, whether or not I believe Christ suffered and died for all men is irrelevant to the facts. The facts don't change because I believe one way or the other.
                    I was attempting to be helpful yet you missed that at least initially. You publicly objected on more than one occasion before back paddling to your present claims.
                    It may not be malicious, but you come across as less than honest, perhaps a propagandist or merely a mocker.
                    What you call as more plausible for Christianity is tantamount to propaganda and I'd laugh everytime to say it, if it wasn't so sad.
                    Last edited by Nic; 02-04-19, 11:00 PM.
                    1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
                    1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Nic View Post
                      No, you are the one who scoffed when I translated for you what was said because you reached for a dictionary to define passion of the true Christ in objection to Christ's suffering and death.
                      translated what was said? Another poster made an asserted claim that the Passion of Christ was an objective reality. I pointed out that 'passion' is an emotion..not something one can objectively measure. "Passion of Christ" is a phrase used to describe Christs suffering, but that again is not objective .. it's a Story.. and what kind of 'suffering' can't be objectively measured either. It's all in ones mind and beliefs. Pointing that out isn't scoffing.. but I am pushing back on the premise that it's OBJECTIVE REALITY.

                      I was attempting to be helpful yet you missed that at least initially. You publicly objected on more than one occasion before back paddling to your present claims.
                      It may not be malicious, but you come across as less than honest.
                      I guess I didn't see it as an attempt to be helpful, but an attempt to gang up on me with BJ there to put forth subjective beliefs and call them FACTs. That wasn't very helpful, but I'll accept that you were just trying to help.

                      What you call as more plausible for Christianity is tantamount sewage and I'd laugh everytime to say it, if it wasn't so sad.
                      What I see here is just an attempt to mock anything that doesn't square with your imagined beliefs. That's not proving your beliefs are true.. in fact it actually does the opposite. It suggests someone is insecure about them.. and therefore feels the need to mock the beliefs of others in some twisted sense that if you mock others you bring them down to level where they no longer threaten your beliefs..

                      So if you think the Christian story is more plausible than a Judeo-Mithra religious Syncretism.. please then provide the OBJECTIVE testable evidence that makes that more plausible? Fact is I don't think you can.. In fact I know you can't. You can't prove that a man named Jesus rose from the dead, and his bones weren't found in an ossuary a few years back.. You may choose to believe in the miracle, but there isn't anything tangible to back it up... it's a story you believe.. It may be true, and it may not be. If there was tangible proof, Christianity would an easy sell to the rest of the world, easy as selling that the earth is a sphere.. but fact is , where as we have tangible proof that the earth isn't flat.. We don't have that for the Christian story.


                      BTW, there is a purpose for all this. I guess I'm trying to find out WHY You believe what you believe. Perhaps cause a little introspection on your part.. why do you believe in Jesus? Is it , just because someone said so?
                      Last edited by oceancoast; 02-04-19, 11:05 PM.
                      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                      We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        So do you honestly believe your Plutarch story is more plausible than the biblical record?
                        I think the biblical record is more than sufficient to garner more reliability than Plutarch buying bottles of wine in exchange for stories.
                        Last edited by Nic; 02-04-19, 11:16 PM.
                        1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
                        1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
                          NO , I don't misunderstand at all.. I cited the dictionary.. I also explicitly stated that I am aware that some hold to a definition of the phrase "Passion of Christ".. (Passion capitalized) to refer to Christ suffering. But the word 'passion' does not mean suffering.
                          Buy or use a better dictionary. The assertion above regarding what the word "passion" does not mean is just another example of ahistorical subjective nonsense.


                          Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
                          False.. that is YOUR SUBJECTIVE Reality. Your subjective BELIEFS. There is no objective evidence to back up your religious beliefs.. I have asked you to present some and you have failed.
                          No, your claim is another expression of mistaking your subjective denial of objective reality in this regard. Of course I understand that is a necessary assertion by those who believe false fantasies.



                          Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

                          Peace,
                          BJ -Bear
                          VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
                          WELS

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
                            translated what was said? Another poster made an asserted claim that the Passion of Christ was an objective reality. I pointed out that 'passion' is an emotion..not something one can objectively measure. "Passion of Christ" is a phrase used to describe Christs suffering, but that again is not objective .. it's a Story.. and what kind of 'suffering' can't be objectively measured either. It's all in ones mind and beliefs. Pointing that out isn't scoffing.. but I am pushing back on the premise that it's OBJECTIVE REALITY.

                            I guess I didn't see it as an attempt to be helpful, but an attempt to gang up on me with BJ there to put forth subjective beliefs and call them FACTs. That wasn't very helpful, but I'll accept that you were just trying to help.

                            What I see here is just an attempt to mock anything that doesn't square with your imagined beliefs. That's not proving your beliefs are true.. in fact it actually does the opposite. It suggests someone is insecure about them.. and therefore feels the need to mock the beliefs of others in some twisted sense that if you mock others you bring them down to level where they no longer threaten your beliefs..

                            So if you think the Christian story is more plausible than a Judeo-Mithra religious Syncretism.. please then provide the OBJECTIVE testable evidence that makes that more plausible? Fact is I don't think you can.. In fact I know you can't. You can't prove that a man named Jesus rose from the dead, and his bones weren't found in an ossuary a few years back.. You may choose to believe in the miracle, but there isn't anything tangible to back it up... it's a story you believe.. It may be true, and it may not be. If there was tangible proof, Christianity would an easy sell to the rest of the world, easy as selling that the earth is a sphere.. but fact is , where as we have tangible proof that the earth isn't flat.. We don't have that for the Christian story.


                            BTW, there is a purpose for all this. I guess I'm trying to find out WHY You believe what you believe. Perhaps cause a little introspection on your part.. why do you believe in Jesus? Is it , just because someone said so?
                            This is a link to the Merriam Webster Dictionary and its definition of Passion

                            https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/passion
                            Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

                            “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
                            but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


                            Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
                              Buy or use a better dictionary. The assertion above regarding what the word "passion" does not mean is just another example of ahistorical subjective nonsense.
                              Perhaps is you who needs to buy or use a better dictionary.. You are trying to FORCE Your religious views into the word.



                              No, your claim is another expression of mistaking your subjective denial of objective reality in this regard.
                              I have done no such thing.

                              Of course I understand that is a necessary assertion by those who believe false fantasies.
                              Like Lutherans.. You haven't proven your beliefs are anything but fantasies.. If you have some PROOF.. let's see it.

                              “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                              We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Thekla View Post

                                This is a link to the Merriam Webster Dictionary and its definition of Passion

                                https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/passion
                                Thanks.. Looks like it back up what I said. Notice I stated.. " I pointed out that 'passion' is an emotion..not something one can objectively measure." see 4a(1) below.

                                Then I said "Passion of Christ" is a phrase used to describe Christs suffering, but that again is not objective .. it's a Story.. Notice I capitalized "Passion" and see 1a below
                                passion noun
                                pas·​sion | \ ˈpa-shən \

                                1 often capitalized

                                a : the sufferings of Christ between the night of the Last Supper and his death
                                b : an oratorio based on a gospel narrative of the Passion
                                Bach's St. Matthew Passion

                                2 obsolete : SUFFERING

                                3 : the state or capacity of being acted on by external agents or forces

                                4a(1) : EMOTION
                                (2) passions plural : the emotions as distinguished from reason
                                a study of the passions
                                b : intense, driving, or overmastering feeling or conviction
                                c : an outbreak of anger
                                5a : ardent affection : LOVE
                                b : a strong liking or desire for or devotion to some activity, object, or concept
                                c : sexual desire
                                d : an object of desire or deep interest
                                “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                                We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                                Comment

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