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LCMS,Young Earh

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  • LCMS,Young Earh

    i posed this question in the Astronomy sub forum but wanted to post it here since there are many Lutheran
    LCMS here. Iím really struggling with the LCMS belief that we have a young earth/universe when it takes millions of light years for many starsí light to reach us. Iíve researched and researched and now want to know what other LCMS members believe about this?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
    i posed this question in the Astronomy sub forum but wanted to post it here since there are many Lutheran
    LCMS here. I’m really struggling with the LCMS belief that we have a young earth/universe when it takes millions of light years for many stars’ light to reach us. I’ve researched and researched and now want to know what other LCMS members believe about this?
    Have your research led you here?



    If you do a search on Russel Humphreys and starlight and time...you'll find video's that go into more detail.

    Comment


    • #3
      http://thebiblecanbeproven.com/does-...t-6-of-series/


      Dr. Lisle is an astrophysicist and creationist and says distant starlight isnít a problem at all.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by CrowCross View Post

        Have your research led you here?



        If you do a search on Russel Humphreys and starlight and time...you'll find video's that go into more detail.
        Thanks! I’m watching your video now. Is this a newer version? His accompanying book was written in 1994, reprinted in 2010. Iím worried that what he says, which makes sense,is outdated. Has his theory yet been proven wrong?
        Last edited by Faith1960; 02-16-19, 03:00 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post

          Thanks! I’m watching your video now.
          Did I show you this video? Signature in the Cell by Stephen Meyer.

          I've asked evolutionist how via a process of random chance mutations....could this cell organelles and such evolve?

          This is only 3 1/2 min long.


          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by CrowCross View Post

            Did I show you this video? Signature in the Cell by Stephen Meyer.

            I've asked evolutionist how via a process of random chance mutations....could this cell organelles and such evolve?

            This is only 3 1/2 min long.

            Itís way over my head too ☺️

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
              i posed this question in the Astronomy sub forum but wanted to post it here since there are many Lutheran
              LCMS here. Iím really struggling with the LCMS belief that we have a young earth/universe when it takes millions of light years for many starsí light to reach us. Iíve researched and researched and now want to know what other LCMS members believe about this?
              I was born , baptised, raised, confirmed in LCMS every week until I left for college, and then more.

              I never had any trouble believing the Bible fully and whole-heartedly as the Father in heaven says to.

              By the time so-called "science" (that apparently you trust in) was "published" and I was aware of it, I knew it was false. This is confirmed over and over every year, btw. (that so-called "science" is false).

              Even when censored badly, Yahweh (God the Creator) says NOT to trust in mankind/ society or be cursed. (like with lack of peace, joy, maybe even salvation? whatever - even Christians can be cursed , and are, according to Yahweh's Word, if they trust mankind/ science/ society)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jethro77 View Post

                I was born , baptised, raised, confirmed in LCMS every week until I left for college, and then more.

                I never had any trouble believing the Bible fully and whole-heartedly as the Father in heaven says to.

                By the time so-called "science" (that apparently you trust in) was "published" and I was aware of it, I knew it was false. This is confirmed over and over every year, btw. (that so-called "science" is false).

                Even when censored badly, Yahweh (God the Creator) says NOT to trust in mankind/ society or be cursed. (like with lack of peace, joy, maybe even salvation? whatever - even Christians can be cursed , and are, according to Yahweh's Word, if they trust mankind/ science/ society)
                Jethro, I believe in most of what you say. However, I'm having a problem with your last paragraph. Jesus said, Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God's. I think that there is science which is a blessing from God. I don't think that he means for mankind to live without seeking knowledge, learning medical treatments, learning how to fly. etc. I don't see why we can't trust mankind/science/society if they also trust God as the one blessing them with knowledge.

                Do I believe that God will punish us if we put mankind/science/and society above him? Yes, I do. But I also believe that God can help us by these things.
                Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

                ďReason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
                but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.Ē ― Martin Luther


                Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Thekla View Post

                  Jethro, I believe in most of what you say. However, I'm having a problem with your last paragraph. Jesus said, Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and to God that which is God's. I think that there is science which is a blessing from God. I don't think that he means for mankind to live without seeking knowledge, learning medical treatments, learning how to fly. etc. I don't see why we can't trust mankind/science/society if they also trust God as the one blessing them with knowledge.

                  Do I believe that God will punish us if we put mankind/science/and society above him? Yes, I do. But I also believe that God can help us by these things.
                  Jesus said He brought a sword......

                  "EK", set apart, by Yahweh is Yahweh's Doing....

                  More of the world, unbelievers, pagans, heathen gentiles BELIEVED some truth BEFORE science changed what is taught to children. (taught to both believers and unbelievers).

                  AFTER science (man's knowledge) began to grow in society, evil grew. (not righteousness). Sinful man's knowledge prevents more souls from finding Yahweh's Kingdom.

                  It might , MIGHT, be used by Yahweh for His Own Purpose.... like the heathen nations Yahweh used to PUNISH His People, THEN Yahweh wiped out the same heathen nations that He had used Himself to punish His Own People.

                  (Yahweh is Sovereign)

                  Somewhere it is written, I think, that Yahweh considers all that man esteems(holds in high regard) Yahweh calls an abomination. Also, society is pernicious. (see in Galatians, and Ephesians, and Revelation.

                  We 'all' growing up are /were/ taught that we 'shud' (sic) trust or believe our parents, ss teachers, policemen, and doctors. Only later we learn this isn't true most of the time. (I don't fault the parents always - not even mine own - they may have done the best they could, honestly, not knowing when it was wrong..... this must rest in /with/ Yahweh because we cannot know unless Yahweh reveals it )

                  For VIVID example, see in Scripture who it is , or what it is , that "deceives the whole world(all society)". (no exception except the elect, by grace - no merit based system, sheer grace (and willingness to be becoming like little children trusting the Father and relying on Him Only ) ....

                  ..........
                  the world is doomed. Corrie ten Boom in a famous letter (online still today, I think), tried (mostly in vain) to warn the CHURCHES.... few listened. Millions were lost , actually billions, but millions were lost because the pastors taught them wrong - they lost their faith, before they died.... (see Corrie's testimony/ as a witness of this/ concerning Chinese assemblies.)

                  ---------

                  A sword. Separates painfully from the cancer/ lies/ false teachings of mankind and of religion....

                  The sword?


                  Yahweh's Word.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jethro77 View Post

                    Jesus said He brought a sword......

                    "EK", set apart, by Yahweh is Yahweh's Doing....

                    More of the world, unbelievers, pagans, heathen gentiles BELIEVED some truth BEFORE science changed what is taught to children. (taught to both believers and unbelievers).

                    AFTER science (man's knowledge) began to grow in society, evil grew. (not righteousness). Sinful man's knowledge prevents more souls from finding Yahweh's Kingdom.

                    It might , MIGHT, be used by Yahweh for His Own Purpose.... like the heathen nations Yahweh used to PUNISH His People, THEN Yahweh wiped out the same heathen nations that He had used Himself to punish His Own People.

                    (Yahweh is Sovereign)

                    Somewhere it is written, I think, that Yahweh considers all that man esteems(holds in high regard) Yahweh calls an abomination. Also, society is pernicious. (see in Galatians, and Ephesians, and Revelation.

                    We 'all' growing up are /were/ taught that we 'shud' (sic) trust or believe our parents, ss teachers, policemen, and doctors. Only later we learn this isn't true most of the time. (I don't fault the parents always - not even mine own - they may have done the best they could, honestly, not knowing when it was wrong..... this must rest in /with/ Yahweh because we cannot know unless Yahweh reveals it )

                    For VIVID example, see in Scripture who it is , or what it is , that "deceives the whole world(all society)". (no exception except the elect, by grace - no merit based system, sheer grace (and willingness to be becoming like little children trusting the Father and relying on Him Only ) ....

                    ..........
                    the world is doomed. Corrie ten Boom in a famous letter (online still today, I think), tried (mostly in vain) to warn the CHURCHES.... few listened. Millions were lost , actually billions, but millions were lost because the pastors taught them wrong - they lost their faith, before they died.... (see Corrie's testimony/ as a witness of this/ concerning Chinese assemblies.)

                    ---------

                    A sword. Separates painfully from the cancer/ lies/ false teachings of mankind and of religion....

                    The sword?


                    Yahweh's Word.
                    Are you Reformed or Lutheran today?
                    1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
                    1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nic View Post
                      Are you Reformed or Lutheran today?
                      What is important - the visible or the invisible ? Do those labels separate families and believers from one another, or unite them ?

                      Physical simile > the north tx bug - which one ? Does any "bug" survive h2o2? Vinegar ? Vitamin C ? etc etc etc These hurt no one, but the 'bugS' are done in .... support the living, wipe out the death/sickness bringing.... Who cares ? Who tries to prevent knowing ? Who cares enough to find out ? (seek and keep seeking, until known, as God Says)...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jethro77 View Post

                        What is important - the visible or the invisible ? Do those labels separate families and believers from one another, or unite them ?

                        Physical simile > the north tx bug - which one ? Does any "bug" survive h2o2? Vinegar ? Vitamin C ? etc etc etc These hurt no one, but the 'bugS' are done in .... support the living, wipe out the death/sickness bringing.... Who cares ? Who tries to prevent knowing ? Who cares enough to find out ? (seek and keep seeking, until known, as God Says)...
                        Doctrine does one of two things; unites or divides. A Lutheran view of right and left kingdoms underscores God uses representatives in this life even those who are not brethren in the Lord whether they are civil leaders or pagan parents, God still has them in charge as overseers. I think this would apply fields of science as well. It doesn't necessitate that everything act or decree from these sinners is right and true to hold up under scutiny because all mankind has the same law. So I agree with Thekla in that God still uses men of science, art , what have you.

                        I'm not sure I understand your bug analogy.

                        Nic
                        Last edited by Nic; 02-17-19, 05:07 PM.
                        1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
                        1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Isaiah 55:6-9
                          "Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

                          As it turns out, we don't possess the skill set of all knowledge. I believe God's word and admittantly that's a gift that I'm eternally grateful for.
                          As a correlative that was used not long ago...

                          What's easier to say, "Let there be light...," "Your sins are forgiven...," "Take up your mat and walk...," "This is my body...," "This is my blood... ."

                          And as a reminder.

                          John 12:49-50
                          "For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me."

                          John 1:1-5
                          "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."

                          Nic
                          Last edited by Nic; 02-17-19, 11:35 PM.
                          1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
                          1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            For those of you who believe in a young earth/universe, how do you believe when most of the evidence goes in the other direction?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
                              For those of you who believe in a young earth/universe, how do you believe when most of the evidence goes in the other direction?
                              Good morning Faith.
                              ​​​​​
                              How do you believe in the resurrection of the dead if the most of the evidence goes against it?

                              Nic
                              1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
                              1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

                              Comment

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