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LCMS,Young Earh

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  • Faith1960
    started a topic LCMS,Young Earh

    LCMS,Young Earh

    i posed this question in the Astronomy sub forum but wanted to post it here since there are many Lutheran
    LCMS here. Iím really struggling with the LCMS belief that we have a young earth/universe when it takes millions of light years for many starsí light to reach us. Iíve researched and researched and now want to know what other LCMS members believe about this?

  • BJ BEAR
    replied
    Originally posted by BaptistCrusader View Post

    Greetings BJ BEAR,

    the "born again Christian tradition" is the "born again Christian tradition"
    Greetings,

    Thanks and welcome to the boards.

    AlFin, do you concur?

    Leave a comment:


  • BaptistCrusader
    replied
    Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
    Question for AlFin and Baptist Crusader:

    Is the "born again Christian tradition" another name for the Baptist tradition?
    Greetings BJ BEAR,

    the "born again Christian tradition" is the "born again Christian tradition"

    Leave a comment:


  • BJ BEAR
    replied
    Question for AlFin and Baptist Crusader:

    Is the "born again Christian tradition" another name for the Baptist tradition?

    Leave a comment:


  • BaptistCrusader
    replied
    Originally posted by AlFin View Post

    No, we born again Christians must read AND understand the Bible to get the revelation of God and his creation.

    If you want to believe that the Earth is young, I have no problem with that. It's not an essential belief.
    Greetings AlFin,

    "born again christianity" reads the bible in light of our tradition and this tradition has taught it is a young earth.

    Leave a comment:


  • AlFin
    replied
    Originally posted by BaptistCrusader View Post

    Greetings AlFin,

    "born again christianity" must read the bible in light of our tradition which point to a young earth.
    No, we born again Christians must read AND understand the Bible to get the revelation of God and his creation.

    If you want to believe that the Earth is young, I have no problem with that. It's not an essential belief.

    Leave a comment:


  • BaptistCrusader
    replied
    Originally posted by AlFin View Post

    You must not know many "born again Christians" if you think they all believe in a young earth. I'm a genuine born-again Christian, and I'm an old Earth creationist. In fact, I would say that most of the members of my church are old Earth creationists. (My pastor is a young Earth creationist.)

    And, for the record, the Bible does not espouse a young Earth. You need to research the Hebrew word yowm, "day."

    For one example, at the end of God's creation "work" he rested, and blessed that "day" as the Sabbath.

    Yet we have this:

    Heb 4:3-5
    3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

    "So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'"

    And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work." 5 And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest."
    NIV

    Since God is still resting (his Sabbath rest), God has been in his Sabbath rest for over 6000 years, which means that "day" cannot mean a 24 hour period of time if we can enter his rest.
    Greetings AlFin,

    "born again christianity" must read the bible in light of our tradition which point to a young earth.

    Leave a comment:


  • AlFin
    replied
    Originally posted by BaptistCrusader View Post

    "born again christians" believe in a young earth as that is what we read when we read the bible so it must be so.
    You must not know many "born again Christians" if you think they all believe in a young earth. I'm a genuine born-again Christian, and I'm an old Earth creationist. In fact, I would say that most of the members of my church are old Earth creationists. (My pastor is a young Earth creationist.)

    And, for the record, the Bible does not espouse a young Earth. You need to research the Hebrew word yowm, "day."

    For one example, at the end of God's creation "work" he rested, and blessed that "day" as the Sabbath.

    Yet we have this:

    Heb 4:3-5
    3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

    "So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'"

    And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work." 5 And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest."
    NIV

    Since God is still resting (his Sabbath rest), God has been in his Sabbath rest for over 6000 years, which means that "day" cannot mean a 24 hour period of time if we can enter his rest.

    Leave a comment:


  • BaptistCrusader
    replied
    Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
    i posed this question in the Astronomy sub forum but wanted to post it here since there are many Lutheran
    LCMS here. I’m really struggling with the LCMS belief that we have a young earth/universe when it takes millions of light years for many stars’ light to reach us. I’ve researched and researched and now want to know what other LCMS members believe about this?
    Greetings Faith1960,

    "born again christians" believe in a young earth as that is what we read when we read the bible so it must be so.

    Leave a comment:


  • BJ BEAR
    replied
    Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
    Yes, the personification of the word of God as God did not begin with John. It is why there was not and still not any dispute (so far as I know) regarding John's use of the Word as a designation for God. It was the Incarnation that was controversial.

    Risto Santala, the author of The Messiah In The Old Testament In The Light Of Rabbinical Writings and The Messiah In The New Testament In The Light Of Rabbinical Writings, made these works and others available here: http://www.ristosantala.com/rsla/messiah.html

    A short blurb about Santala can be read here: https://www.jerusalemperspective.com...risto-santala/
    For what it is worth, in the book titled The Messiah In Light Of The Rabbinical Writings in the chapter titled The Messiah, The Prince Of The Countenance; Santala writes, "The Mimra concept associated with God and his manifestations appears 596 times in the Targums -- but not once in the Talmud." I never tried to count how many matches a search at the CAL returned but many seems to be an understatement.

    Leave a comment:


  • BJ BEAR
    replied
    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

    Okay, thanks. So perhaps this is why John refers to Jesus as the "Word of God."
    Yes, the personification of the word of God as God did not begin with John. It is why there was not and still not any dispute (so far as I know) regarding John's use of the Word as a designation for God. It was the Incarnation that was controversial.

    Risto Santala, the author of The Messiah In The Old Testament In The Light Of Rabbinical Writings and The Messiah In The New Testament In The Light Of Rabbinical Writings, made these works and others available here: http://www.ristosantala.com/rsla/messiah.html

    A short blurb about Santala can be read here: https://www.jerusalemperspective.com...risto-santala/

    Leave a comment:


  • Bonnie
    replied
    Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post

    John references the creation account so that seems like a good place to start. And God said X and it was so. The Psalmist sums it up this way, Psalms 33:6
    "By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth."

    If a person searches the Targumim on memra at the CAL (the Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon) he will receive numerous explicit and even literalistic on topic matches. (Doing that on the device I am using is a pain so that will come later.)
    Okay, thanks. So perhaps this is why John refers to Jesus as the "Word of God."

    Leave a comment:


  • BJ BEAR
    replied
    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

    Hey, Beej--could you give us a few examples from the OT? Thanks.
    John references the creation account so that seems like a good place to start. And God said X and it was so. The Psalmist sums it up this way, Psalms 33:6
    "By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth."

    If a person searches the Targumim on memra at the CAL (the Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon) he will receive numerous explicit and even literalistic on topic matches. (Doing that on the device I am using is a pain so that will come later.)
    Last edited by BJ BEAR; 05-25-19, 05:21 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bonnie
    replied
    Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post

    Yes, the Word as a designation or name of God is from the OT in both the Hebrew and Aramaic Scriptures. In them a person will find the word of the Lord doing this and doing that.
    Hey, Beej--could you give us a few examples from the OT? Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • BJ BEAR
    replied
    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

    Hi--No the Word here is the pre-Incarnate Jesus. The Bible IS God's holy word, but that isn't what John is referring to. I think the HS inspired John to call Jesus the "Word of God" because of this: we communicate with each other with words, both verbal and written. But God most fully communicates with us through His Son. As the writer of Hebrews puts it:



    See? God has most fully spoken--communicated--to us via His Son, Who became flesh for our sake, so our sins can be forgiven and we can have eternal life in heaven with Him after death.
    Yes, the Word as a designation or name of God is from the OT in both the Hebrew and Aramaic Scriptures. In them a person will find the word of the Lord doing this and doing that.

    Leave a comment:

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