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"Your faith has saved you..."

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  • "Your faith has saved you..."

    Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
    But you DID make the erroneous statement that ONLY grace saves us--not works, and NOT FAITH. Yet Jesus proves you wrong in Luke 7:50: "You FAITH has saved you. Go in peace." Was Jesus wrong? Did He lie? Should I believe Jesus or YOU?
    Do Lutherans believe our faith saves us--or does God's grace save us?

    IOW--if we believe all the "save" scriptures to mean eternal life--do they also believe eternal life is given to one's own self--and those who hear us?

    1 Timothy 4:16--- King James Version (KJV)
    16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.



  • #2
    We believe Jesus and what He said in Luke 7:50....why don't YOU?
    Was Jesus wrong? Lying? What?

    What does "believe" mean, dberrie, as when Paul told the Philippian jailer, when he asked what he must do to be saved? Remember? "BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your whole household."

    "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
    "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
    “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
    "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
    "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
      We believe Jesus and what He said in Luke 7:50....why don't YOU?
      Then please explain how one is saved independent of God's grace.(by faith) If it's by faith--then we don't need His grace. And since it was before Jesus' Atonement--how was mankind to be saved prior to the Atonement?

      Also--if we are to believe the Biblical witness--are you claiming you believe one saves their own selves?

      1 Timothy 4:16--- King James Version (KJV)
      16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

      Was Paul wrong? Was he lying? Why don't you believe Paul?

      Bonnie--one has to have an explanation to that, or dismiss them altogether as an unreliable witness.

      So--what is your explanation?



      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

        Then please explain how one is saved independent of God's grace.(by faith) If it's by faith--then we don't need His grace. And since it was before Jesus' Atonement--how was mankind to be saved prior to the Atonement?

        Also--if we are to believe the Biblical witness--are you claiming you believe one saves their own selves?

        1 Timothy 4:16--- King James Version (KJV)
        16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

        Was Paul wrong? Was he lying? Why don't you believe Paul?

        Bonnie--one has to have an explanation to that, or dismiss them altogether as an unreliable witness.

        So--what is your explanation?


        I asked you first. Please just answer my simple question about Luke 7:50: was Jesus WRONG? Was Jesus LYING? Yes or no, dberrie.

        I am waiting.
        "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
        "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
        “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
        "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
        "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

          Do Lutherans believe our faith saves us--or does God's grace save us?
          Faith in that passage, Luke 7:50, is a noun. What is her faith? Your question rests on a false dichotomy.
          Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

          Peace,
          BJ -Bear
          VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
          WELS

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
            Faith in that passage, Luke 7:50, is a noun. What is her faith? Your question rests on a false dichotomy.
            It's a question of what Lutherans believe saves one unto eternal life.

            Is it our faith--or God's grace--or something else?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
              I asked you first.
              Bonnie--it's my OP.

              Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post Do Lutherans believe our faith saves us--or does God's grace save us?
              Care to engage the OP question?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                Bonnie--it's my OP.



                Care to engage the OP question?
                So what? You don't OWN this thread or this website.

                Now kindly answer my question as it is certainly pertinent to this thread, which YOU started, about Luke 7:50. So therefore, you have to put up with questions about it.

                Jesus told the woman that her FAITH had saved her. Yet you claim that we are saved ONLY by grace and NOT by faith OR works. Yet Jesus here tells the woman her FAITH had saved her. Therefore ,i ask you, was Jesus lying? Was He just plain wrong?

                Answer this question, dberrie. it is simple enough and not an essay question...

                And one more question: should I believe what YOU say--or Jesus Christ Himself and what HE says?
                "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
                "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
                  So what? You don't OWN this thread or this website.
                  It's still my thread--and the question I posed for Lutherans was this one:

                  Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post Do Lutherans believe our faith saves us--or does God's grace save us?
                  Bonnie--I believe it to be a fair question, and it is my thread.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                    It's still my thread--and the question I posed for Lutherans was this one:



                    Bonnie--I believe it to be a fair question, and it is my thread.
                    I said we believe what Jesus told the woman in Luke 7:50. Do YOU?

                    WE also believe Paul in Eph. 2:8-9. And I have also stated that faith and grace are two sides to the same coin and BOTH are gifts of God, as per Eph. 2:8-9. .

                    Also, all over the NT it says when we BELIEVE in Jesus Christ, we are saved. What does 'believe in" mean? It means "trust, have confidence in, have FAITH IN."

                    Now, I ask YOU MY faith question, since you wrote elsewhere that ONLY grace saves us and not faith or works: Was Jesus mistaken in what He told the woman? Or was He lying?

                    I think THAT is a fair question.
                    "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                    "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                    “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
                    "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                    "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
                      I said we believe what Jesus told the woman in Luke 7:50. Do YOU?

                      WE also believe Paul in Eph. 2:8-9. And I have also stated that faith and grace are two sides to the same coin and BOTH are gifts of God, as per Eph. 2:8-9. .
                      My question did not argue about gifts--but what saves one.

                      Do you believe it is our faith which saves--or God's grace?

                      IOW--if one believes it is one's faith which saves--then why would they need God's grace?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                        It's a question of what Lutherans believe saves one unto eternal life.

                        Is it our faith--or God's grace--or something else?
                        Read Luke 7:36-50. Your question makes no sense in light of what is written there. After you've read it then answer according to what is written there the question of what is her faith?
                        Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

                        Peace,
                        BJ -Bear
                        VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
                        WELS

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
                          Read Luke 7:36-50. Your question makes no sense in light of what is written there. After you've read it then answer according to what is written there the question of what is her faith?
                          The question being--does one believe the woman is saved by her faith--or God's grace?

                          If she is saved by her faith--then she does not need God's grace to be saved--if "saved" means she received eternal life.

                          So--does one also save their own selves?

                          1 Timothy 4:16--- King James Version (KJV)
                          16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

                          Do husbands save their wives?

                          1 Corinthians 7:16---King James Version (KJV)
                          16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether [B]thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

                          Did Paul have the power to save people?

                          1 Corinthians 9:22---King James Version (KJV)
                          22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

                          Are women saved because they bear children?(that would really render faith alone theology false!!!)

                          1 Timothy 2:15---King James Version (KJV)
                          15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.


                          Either "saved" there is in another meaning other than receiving eternal life---or we really don't need God to save us.




                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                            The question being--does one believe the woman is saved by her faith--or God's grace?
                            Repeating the same nonsensical question doesn't make it any less nonsensical.

                            "Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
                            Read Luke 7:36-50. Your question makes no sense in light of what is written there. After you've read it then answer according to what is written there the question of what is her faith?"
                            Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

                            Peace,
                            BJ -Bear
                            VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
                            WELS

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                              The question being--does one believe the woman is saved by her faith--or God's grace?

                              If she is saved by her faith--then she does not need God's grace to be saved--if "saved" means she received eternal life.

                              So--does one also save their own selves?

                              1 Timothy 4:16--- King James Version (KJV)
                              16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

                              Do husbands save their wives?

                              1 Corinthians 7:16---King James Version (KJV)
                              16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether [B]thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

                              Did Paul have the power to save people?

                              1 Corinthians 9:22---King James Version (KJV)
                              22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

                              Are women saved because they bear children?(that would really render faith alone theology false!!!)

                              1 Timothy 2:15---King James Version (KJV)
                              15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.


                              Either "saved" there is in another meaning other than receiving eternal life---or we really don't need God to save us.



                              Your bible verses have nothing to do with Luke 7:50. They are just a diversionary tactic.

                              Now--What did JESUS actually tell the woman?

                              "Your FAITH HAS SAVED YOU; go in peace."

                              Deny the clear words of Scripture all you want to, but this is what Jesus said. Should we believe YOU or Jesus Christ Himself?
                              "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                              "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                              “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
                              "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                              "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

                              Comment

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