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Lutheran theology 2

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  • Lutheran theology 2

    Matthew 25:14-30---- King James Version (KJV)

    14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
    15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
    16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
    17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
    18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
    19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
    20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
    21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
    22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
    23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
    24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
    25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
    26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
    27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
    28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
    29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
    30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    I have a question for Lutherans:

    Were the servants saved at the point the lord gave them His gifts, IE--"who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods."

    What is Lutheran theology on that point?

  • #2
    Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post
    Matthew 25:14-30---- King James Version (KJV)

    14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
    15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
    16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
    17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
    18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
    19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
    20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
    21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
    22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
    23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
    24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
    25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
    26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
    27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
    28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
    29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
    30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    I have a question for Lutherans:

    Were the servants saved at the point the lord gave them His gifts, IE--"who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods."

    What is Lutheran theology on that point?
    It is Lutheran theology. We are God's servants.
    Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

    “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
    but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


    Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Thekla View Post
      It is Lutheran theology. We are God's servants.
      Hi Thekla:

      The question was--are those servants whom the lord gave his gifts to in verse 14---saved?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

        Hi Thekla:

        The question was--are those servants whom the lord gave his gifts to in verse 14---saved?
        Yes
        Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

        “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
        but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


        Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post
          Matthew 25:14-30---- King James Version (KJV)

          14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
          15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
          16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
          17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
          18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
          19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
          20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
          21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
          22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
          23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
          24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
          25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
          26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
          27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
          28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
          29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
          30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

          I have a question for Lutherans:

          Were the servants saved at the point the lord gave them His gifts, IE--"who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods."

          What is Lutheran theology on that point?
          It is a parable spoken to those under the law. A parable has a main point. What is it? Anything else is Scripture twisting as it is not the point the Speaker intended to convey.
          Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

          Peace,
          BJ -Bear
          VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
          WELS

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post

            It is a parable spoken to those under the law. A parable has a main point. What is it? Anything else is Scripture twisting as it is not the point the Speaker intended to convey.
            I think this parable would be easy to compare to Satan, St. Peter, and Judas
            Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

            “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
            but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


            Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post
              It is a parable spoken to those under the law.
              That's who the gospel primarily went to in the early church.

              A parable has a main point. What is it?
              That God will judge His servants in accordance with what they do with His gifts--and that for the "joy of thy lord"--or "outer darkness".

              How is that any different than His testimony elsewhere?

              John 5:28-29 ---King James Version (KJV)
              28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
              29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

              Matthew 16:27 ---King James Version (KJV)

              27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Thekla View Post
                Yes
                Thanks, Thekla.

                That indicates those saved servants will still be judged in accordance with what they do with His gifts--and given their reward accordingly.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                  Thanks, Thekla.

                  That indicates those saved servants will still be judged in accordance with what they do with His gifts--and given their reward accordingly.
                  Lutherans believe that we will be rewarded for doing good works. I do not think that we think we agree on what you mean my judged. They were saved. #3 was not sent to hell because he failed to do good works. While he believed in God he did not believe rightly. see this section of your parable.

                  24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
                  25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.


                  This is very much like Adam in the book of Genesis.

                  3: 12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

                  You see both blamed God for their sin, not themselves.

                  Judas who took money to help Jesus be caught by the Jews, was his follower. Instead of asking Christ to forgive him, he committed suicide. I pray that as he hung on the tree he confessed his sin, asked Christ to forgive him and is now in heaven.

                  Peter who denied knowing Jesus was his follower. Peter confessed his sin, told Christ that he loved him and was made the leader of the Christian church.

                  So, I don't think we take the same meaning from this parable.
                  Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

                  “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
                  but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


                  Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Thekla View Post
                    Lutherans believe that we will be rewarded for doing good works.
                    To be sure--not to enter into "the joy of thy lord".

                    Lutherans believe one is rewarded in salvation---not for salvation.

                    IOW--Lutherans exclude all acts of obedience to Jesus Christ in obtaining salvation. They believe it is grace through a faith without works.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                      To be sure--not to enter into "the joy of thy lord".

                      Lutherans believe one is rewarded in salvation---not for salvation.

                      IOW--Lutherans exclude all acts of obedience to Jesus Christ in obtaining salvation. They believe it is grace through a faith without works.
                      Wow! Yes, that is what we believe! and you do as well. You won't say you do, but several times you have said that you must confess your sins and be forgiven by God. So your good works don't save you your faith in Christ does. Your seeking his forgiveness does. Swearing at someone and then going out and giving money to a poor person doesn't save you with good works does it?
                      Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

                      “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
                      but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


                      Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Thekla View Post
                        Wow! Yes, that is what we believe!
                        So--your claim is Lutherans believe His servants are judged in accordance with what they do with the gifts God gives them--and that to enter into the "joy of thy Lord"--or "outer darkness"?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                          So--your claim is Lutherans believe His servants are judged in accordance with what they do with the gifts God gives them--and that to enter into the "joy of thy Lord"--or "outer darkness"?
                          I don't understand this question. My statement is very clear.
                          Mark 9:24 Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

                          “Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,
                          but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.” ― Martin Luther


                          Muretus "Call no man worthless for whom Christ died!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Thekla View Post
                            I don't understand this question. My statement is very clear.

                            Thanks for the answer.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BJ BEAR View Post It is a parable spoken to those under the law.
                              That's who the gospel primarily went to in the early church.

                              A parable has a main point. What is it?
                              That God will judge His servants in accordance with what they do with His gifts--and that for the "joy of thy lord"--or "outer darkness".

                              How is that any different than His testimony elsewhere?

                              John 5:28-29 ---King James Version (KJV)
                              28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
                              29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

                              Matthew 16:27 ---King James Version (KJV)

                              27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.


                              Bump for BJ

                              Comment

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