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Tim Keller

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  • Tim Keller

    https://www.redeemer.com/r/qc_audio_2015

    Listen to the bottom link, Questions About the Bible.

    My church is having a class with video from Tim Keller.After the video,we will have a Q and A. My pastor seems to admire Keller and had praise for him, but what he teaches goes against some LCMS teaching. For example, Keller doubts the earth is 6000 years old (he says it’s not 5000 years old). He says the geneologies are incomplete. Etc.
    I emailed my pastor about this a couple weeks ago but he never responded. I ask him too many questions and hes tired of me, lol.
    What say you?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
    https://www.redeemer.com/r/qc_audio_2015

    Listen to the bottom link, Questions About the Bible.

    My church is having a class with video from Tim Keller.After the video,we will have a Q and A. My pastor seems to admire Keller and had praise for him, but what he teaches goes against some LCMS teaching. For example, Keller doubts the earth is 6000 years old (he says it’s not 5000 years old). He says the geneologies are incomplete. Etc.
    I emailed my pastor about this a couple weeks ago but he never responded. I ask him too many questions and he’s tired of me, lol.
    What say you?
    Hi Faith,
    How does he know? As another poster asked in another thread?
    This appears as a different asserted "gap theory" that is also sometimes asserted. This one is apparently the "gaps of genealgy" theory.
    This stuff just wears me out, you know all these "what if's" theories." God's word is true or we have nothing to stand on.

    Nic
    1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
    1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Nic View Post

      Hi Faith,
      How does he know? As another poster asked in another thread?
      This appears as a different asserted "gap theory" that is also sometimes asserted. This one is apparently the "gaps of genealgy" theory.
      This stuff just wears me out, you know all these "what if's" theories." God's word is true or we have nothing to stand on.

      Nic
      He explains how there can be non literal things in the Bible and it still being true. Have you ever heard of this guy? Now I’m really confused about what to believe. My pastor teaches that what we’ve discussed forLCMS beliefs but then he sounded enthusiastic about Tim Keller and this class. Then he doesnt respond when i tell him.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post

        He explains how there can be non literal things in the Bible and it still being true. Have you ever heard of this guy? Now I’m really confused about what to believe. My pastor teaches that what we’ve discussed forLCMS beliefs but then he sounded enthusiastic about Tim Keller and this class. Then he doesnt respond when i tell him.
        You can presume all sorts of things not revealed explicitly in Scripture. They may even at times have a component of validity. But to what end? What purpose does speculation serve? Did God really say... ? Fanciful speculations serve one purpose, the ego of man. That's my take.

        Nic
        1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
        1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

        Comment


        • #5
          Have you heard of this guy?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
            Have you heard of this guy?
            I've heard the narrative before, I don't think this was the same person.
            His name doesn't ring a bell, I don't think it matters.
            John 21:25
            Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

            I view the take home point is anything not revealed in Scripture is relegated to secondary at best and unimportant to the message of the cross. I could always be wrong here and my tact may not be the greatest, but I feel like you're more interested in looking at shadows surrounding the gospel than the gospel itself. Grant it these things can fascinate, but non-believers in awe of God's majestic creation are only condemned by their fascination. The fingerprints of God serve to condemn, so that there's no excuse for anyone. Maybe, just maybe my personal trials have rendered my response with less love tempering than deserved. If that's the case, please forgive me.

            Nic
            1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
            1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Nic View Post
              I've heard the narrative before, I don't think this was the same person.
              His name doesn't ring a bell, I don't think it matters.
              John 21:25
              Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

              I view the take home point is anything not revealed in Scripture is relegated to secondary at best and unimportant to the message of the cross. I could always be wrong here and my tact may not be the greatest, but I feel like you're more interested in looking at shadows surrounding the gospel than the gospel itself. Grant it these things can fascinate, but non-believers in awe of God's majestic creation are only condemned by their fascination. The fingerprints of God serve to condemn, so that there's no excuse for anyone. Maybe, just maybe my personal trials have rendered my response with less love tempering than deserved. If that's the case, please forgive me.

              Nic
              What do you mean.....shadows surrounding the gospel? I’m just trying to learn the other, non Catholic side of things. And may I add, its confusing because there are so many churches with so many beliefs, or so it seems to me.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post

                What do you mean.....shadows surrounding the gospel? I’m just trying to learn the other, non Catholic side of things. And may I add, it’s confusing because there are so many churches with so many beliefs, or so it seems to me.
                These theories are theories not the gospel. They only serve to appease man's ego as I see it. We can spend every waking moment working on all the unknowns as they relate to the biblical witness, in the end, in my opinion, it's a waste of the precious time we have left. It's like eating empty carbohydrates; all the calories none of the nutrition. I suppose that same argument could be applied to every last one of us when we aren't in God's word, praying or serving. I find nothing wrong with learning, but for me your curiosity with evolution et al, is the placing in the saddle on the wrong horse.

                Nic
                1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
                1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
                  What do you mean.....shadows surrounding the gospel? I’m just trying to learn the other, non Catholic side of things. And may I add, it’s confusing because there are so many churches with so many beliefs, or so it seems to me.
                  Larger question: Have you read the Bible yet?? In the final analysis, the Bible, plus the illumination of the Holy Spirit is your best FOUNDATION for beliefs, and not this or that Denominational interpretation. Read it a couple of times through before you bother with "Theologian's opinions" about it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                    Larger question: Have you read the Bible yet?? In the final analysis, the Bible, plus the illumination of the Holy Spirit is your best FOUNDATION for beliefs, and not this or that Denominational interpretation. Read it a couple of times through before you bother with "Theologian's opinions" about it.

                    Not in in its entirety.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post


                      Not in in its entirety.
                      That's you first order of business, then. When you don't know the "STANDARD OF TRUTH", then you're just shooting in the dark. And there's folks here that'll take you WAY into the dark if you let 'em.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post

                        What do you mean.....shadows surrounding the gospel? I’m just trying to learn the other, non Catholic side of things. And may I add, it’s confusing because there are so many churches with so many beliefs, or so it seems to me.
                        Hi again Faith,
                        I think I clarified "the shadows" point yet I wanted to address some other things you mentioned.
                        "Trying to learn the other, non Catholic side of things" encompasses a vast territory. In fact everything that isn't Catholic. Lutherans are indeed catholic despite the medieval Roman Church failure of recognition. History demonstrates as much. The first twenty articles of our confession of faith were all catholic in origin. Also to note, just because something is Catholic doesn't make it wrong by default.
                        You're right about churches with lots of varying beliefs and that's an understatement.
                        I'll tell you that confessional Lutherans are unique to to the whole of Christianity as far as I know.
                        So in what way?
                        Lutherans place reason beneath scripture or to put it another way, reason is the handmaiden of scripture.
                        The rest of the church doest it the other way around.

                        Nic
                        1Co 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
                        1Co 1:31 so that, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
                          https://www.redeemer.com/r/qc_audio_2015

                          Listen to the bottom link, Questions About the Bible.

                          My church is having a class with video from Tim Keller.After the video,we will have a Q and A. My pastor seems to admire Keller and had praise for him, but what he teaches goes against some LCMS teaching. For example, Keller doubts the earth is 6000 years old (he says it’s not 5000 years old). He says the geneologies are incomplete. Etc.
                          I emailed my pastor about this a couple weeks ago but he never responded. I ask him too many questions and he’s tired of me, lol.
                          What say you?
                          At what point in time does the relevant section start? Thanks.

                          Test all things and praise God from whom all blessings flow!

                          Peace,
                          BJ -Bear
                          VDMA (1 Peter 1:25)
                          WELS

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
                            Tim Keller

                            Listen to the bottom link, Questions About the Bible.

                            My church is having a class with video from Tim Keller.After the video,we will have a Q and A. My pastor seems to admire Keller and had praise for him, but what he teaches goes against some LCMS teaching. For example, Keller doubts the earth is 6000 years old (he says it’s not 5000 years old). He says the geneologies are incomplete. Etc.
                            I emailed my pastor about this a couple weeks ago but he never responded. I ask him too many questions and he’s tired of me, lol.
                            Bear with me, Fath1960, because I'd like to know where Keller said the earth is less than 5000 years old. Was it one of those session lectures to which the op libnks us? If so, then which one? Thx.

                            As far as the genealogies goes, Keller is correct and this is generally accepted in most of Christendom, as evidenced by the fact the genealogies sometimes don't match up. The lack of match is due to a few different reasons; some folks had more than one name, some lists are emphasizing heads of clans within the tribes, etc. There is a difference between the two genealogies of Jesus in Matthew and Luke. So Keller is correct; the genalogies aren't complete.

                            However, this would make the earth older than 5 or 6000 years, not less. So I'm curious, where did Keller say such a thing?
                            Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
                            What say you?
                            I say Keller is brilliant. Imperfect, but brilliant.

                            I have many of his books in my library and I've actually read them. I am often humbled by the wisdom found in them. His book, "The Prodigal God" is one I can recommend wholeheartedly to any Christian emphatically in clear conscience. His book "Counterfiet Gods," not so much. Keller is Presbyterian, not Lutheran, so there are going to be differences. Requiring all teachers to be sectarian is going to be a problem for anyone so I would encourage you to have some flexibility here. I once visited a church that required all members to subscribe to Dispensational Premillennial eschatology and when I asked about that they told me I could join the church but I could promote other views. This policy alone would prevent the likes of Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Arminius, Spurgeon, the Hodges, van Til, Schaeffer, and Sproul from being members. It's a very dumb, unscriptural, and irrational policy. I hope you aren't expressing that degree of sectarianism.

                            Give Keller a chance and remember you can discard anything you hear that doesn't wholly reconcile with scripture.
                            All verses cited or quoted or in the NAS unless otherwise noted.

                            if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules. (2 Tim. 2:5)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nic View Post

                              Hi Faith,
                              How does he know? As another poster asked in another thread?
                              This appears as a different asserted "gap theory" that is also sometimes asserted. This one is apparently the "gaps of genealgy" theory.
                              This stuff just wears me out, you know all these "what if's" theories." God's word is true or we have nothing to stand on.

                              Nic
                              Tim Keller advocates theistic evolution.

                              Comment

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