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Why should methodists ever endorse gay behavior?

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  • #61
    Rachel Rachel replied
    01-14-18, 09:10 AM
    ​​​​​​
    Someone earlier said, "Homosexuality is the sexual orientation and desire for the same sex.
    This is different than homosexual sex."

    Here's the dilemma in this thinking...
    if a man is sexually attracted to a woman but doesn't act on it, he's not sinning and if he marries her, it's God's plan.

    If a man is sexually attracted to another man but doesn't act on it, he isn't sinning, but if he marries that man is it still God's plan?

    TEMPTATION is NOT SIN. Jesus was tempted, but Jesus did not sin.

    It was NEVER God's plan for a man to "marry" another man. SCRIPTURE DOES NOT SAY IT IS.
    God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

    I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

    Comment


    • #62
      martureo replied
      01-01-18, 09:23 PM
      Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post
      We're not, and we do. We don't give homosexuals a hard time for being Homosexual, since it's not a SIN to BE what you are. HOWEVER - Homosexual physical activity between same sex humans is universally condemned in the Bible. Consequently we present it as being WHAT IT IS - SIN.
      So your remarks about transgender persons were mistaken?

      I will not comment on Bob's remarks (I haven't read them). . .BUT. .

      Just because a person changes his clothes to those of the opposite sex and gets himself 'altered' physically by doctors does not change the fact that 'he' was still CREATED BY GOD a "he," not as a 'she.' To mutilate himself like that is his own choice and either pretends that 'God goofed' or that that person's CHOICE is wiser than God's for HIM is.

      Either way, such self-mutilation (even engaging a 'doctor' to do so) is a sin against God.
      God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

      I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Morefish View Post

        Either way, such self-mutilation (even engaging a 'doctor' to do so) is a sin against God.
        1 Cor 7:17-21
        Nevertheless, each one should retain the place in life that the Lord assigned to him and to which God has called him. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches. Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts. Each one should remain in the situation which he was in when God called him.

        While reading this one day, I was puzzled about the sentence "Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised," struck me. In that day, how could any man be "uncircumcised" since circumcision was a surgical procedure? Then I realized that this could speak to the current practice of gender alteration surgery. If a person while a sinner has had their gender surgically changed, then gets born again, this verse would tell that person not to reverse the process, but to remain they way they were at salvation.
        Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

        Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

        Comment


        • #64

          AlFin replied
          01-15-18, 11:12 AM
          Originally posted by Morefish View Post
          Either way, such self-mutilation (even engaging a 'doctor' to do so) is a sin against God.

          1 Cor 7:17-21
          Nevertheless, each one should retain the place in life that the Lord assigned to him and to which God has called him. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches. Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts. Each one should remain in the situation which he was in when God called him.

          While reading this one day, I was puzzled about the sentence "Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised," struck me. In that day, how could any man be "uncircumcised" since circumcision was a surgical procedure? Then I realized that this could speak to the current practice of gender alteration surgery. If a person while a sinner has had their gender surgically changed, then gets born again, this verse would tell that person not to reverse the process, but to remain they way they were at salvation.
          OYE! Such rationalization! That does NOT diminish the fact that when the individual made the conscious choice to mutilate himself, it was a sin against God.

          OF COURSE God forgives him/her/it. Nor would I turn him away from worshiping God in our congregation. Of course he would NOT qualify to be a leader. . .
          God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

          I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Morefish View Post

            OYE! Such rationalization! That does NOT diminish the fact that when the individual made the conscious choice to mutilate himself, it was a sin against God.
            Rationalization? What rationalization? I wrote "If a person while a sinner . . .", so of course it was a sin against God; although, almost everything a sinner does is against God. What I was getting at is what they think they must do after being born again.


            Originally posted by Morefish View Post

            OF COURSE God forgives him/her/it. Nor would I turn him away from worshiping God in our congregation. Of course he would NOT qualify to be a leader. . .
            I would agree that they cannot have a leadership position.
            Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

            Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

            Comment


            • #66
              AlFin replied
              01-15-18, 12:50 PM
              Originally posted by Morefish View Post
              OYE! Such rationalization! That does NOT diminish the fact that when the individual made the conscious choice to mutilate himself, it was a sin against God.
              Rationalization? What rationalization? I wrote "If a person while a sinner . . .", so of course it was a sin against God; although, almost everything a sinner does is against God. What I was getting at is what they think they must do after being born again.

              Perhaps you should re-read what YOU wrote. . .

              Originally posted by Morefish View Post
              OF COURSE God forgives him/her/it. Nor would I turn him away from worshiping God in our congregation. Of course he would NOT qualify to be a leader. . .
              I would agree that they cannot have a leadership position.
              God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

              I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Rachel Rachel View Post

                ​​​​​​
                Someone earlier said, "Homosexuality is the sexual orientation and desire for the same sex.
                This is different than homosexual sex."

                Here's the dilemma in this thinking...
                if a man is sexually attracted to a woman but doesn't act on it, he's not sinning and if he marries her, it's God's plan.

                If a man is sexually attracted to another man but doesn't act on it, he isn't sinning, but if he marries that man is it still God's plan?
                It is NEVER 'God's plan' to commit sin.

                Marriage (From ALL Biblical offerings) is between a man and a WOMAN, not between a man and a man, a man and a dog, or a man and a pig.

                Sorry, but exchanging the natural (man + WOMAN) for the UNnatural (man plus man) is a sin, according to the Bible.
                God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

                I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

                Comment


                • #68
                  AlFin replied
                  01-15-18, 11:50 AM

                  Originally posted by Morefish View Post
                  OYE! Such rationalization! That does NOT diminish the fact that when the individual made the conscious choice to mutilate himself, it was a sin against God.
                  Rationalization? What rationalization? I wrote "If a person while a sinner . . .", so of course it was a sin against God; although, almost everything a sinner does is against God. What I was getting at is what they think they must do after being born again.
                  And of course. . .YOU NEVER SIN. . .(or ARE you a sinner?. .) Are you trying to tell us YOU DON'T NEED JESUS?

                  Try reading ALL of 1 John 1:1-10. 'IF YOU SAY YOU have no sin, you are a l**r and the truth is not in you.'

                  So. . .YOU are 'not' a sinner who NEEDS JESUS?
                  God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

                  I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Morefish View Post
                    OR women pastorettes? OR other NON-BIBLICAL JUNK?
                    We do not teach homosexual behavior. Each person should make those choices for himself. Jesus never taught otherwise.

                    Woman preachers were taught by Paul. He even mentions a female Apostle. Jesus never taught against that either.

                    Why don't we just follow Jesus?

                    JohnR

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      highrigger replied
                      12-20-18, 04:40 PM
                      Originally posted by Morefish View Post
                      OR women pastorettes? OR other NON-BIBLICAL JUNK?
                      We do not teach homosexual behavior. Each person should make those choices for himself. Jesus never taught otherwise.

                      Woman preachers were taught by Paul. He even mentions a female Apostle. Jesus never taught against that either.

                      Why don't we just follow Jesus?

                      JohnR
                      Jesus NEVER ENDORSED SIN or sinful behavior. I will continue to follow Jesus.

                      No, Jesus NEVER mentions any female Apostle. We have had that conversation, and you failed to demonstrate EVEN ONE Apostlette exists in the Bible. In any event the Bible is CLEAR, women should have NO authority over men in Christ's church. Do you REALLY think Paul spoke without care or meaning?

                      So I will just continue to follow Jesus Christ. You may follow your gays, lesbians, and other sinners down into the pits if you wish.


                      1 Cor 6:9-11
                      Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
                      NKJV


                      Being tempted is not a sin. Practicing sinful behavior is a sin. To be tempted towards homosexual behavior is not a sin. To follow the temptation out is. For a religion to endorse such behavior is wrong, no matter what excuses you make.

                      Now go ahead and call me names.
                      God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

                      I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Morefish View Post

                        And of course. . .YOU NEVER SIN. . .(or ARE you a sinner?. .) Are you trying to tell us YOU DON'T NEED JESUS?

                        Try reading ALL of 1 John 1:1-10. 'IF YOU SAY YOU have no sin, you are a l**r and the truth is not in you.'

                        So. . .YOU are 'not' a sinner who NEEDS JESUS?
                        Am I a "sinner"? I am a born-again Christian, and as such am now a saint, the same as every other born-again Christian. And committing a sin does not change that fact.
                        Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

                        Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          AlFin replied
                          03-02-19, 10:47 AM
                          Originally posted by Morefish View Post
                          And of course. . .YOU NEVER SIN. . .(or ARE you a sinner?. .) Are you trying to tell us YOU DON'T NEED JESUS?

                          Try reading ALL of 1 John 1:1-10. 'IF YOU SAY YOU have no sin, you are a l**r and the truth is not in you.'


                          So. . .YOU are 'not' a sinner who NEEDS JESUS?

                          Am I a "sinner"? I am a born-again Christian, and as such am now a saint, the same as every other born-again Christian. And committing a sin does not change that fact.
                          IF YOU ARE INDEED a born-again Christian, WILL YOU approve of, endorse, or generally continually practice the same sin, punlically arguing against what GOD HAS SAID?

                          I don't think so.


                          God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

                          I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Morefish View Post

                            IF YOU ARE INDEED a born-again Christian, WILL YOU approve of, endorse, or generally continually practice the same sin, punlically arguing against what GOD HAS SAID?

                            I don't think so.

                            So, in what way did I give you the impression that as a Christian I (or any other Christian) will "continually practice the same sin"? Unless this is just a "knee jerk" response.
                            Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

                            Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by tester View Post

                              of course Homosexuals are welcome in my church. so are thieves, liars, adulterers. in fact; all sinners are welcome in my Church

                              Does the Bible teach that homosexual behavior is a sin?

                              or doesn't that matter to you or your church?
                              Sinners of ALL SORTS are welcome to visit my church.

                              Those who PROMOTE sin are not allowed in leadership. They weren't in Biblical times either.

                              And yes, the Bible DOES teach that homosexual behavior is a sin. So are stealing and adultery sins.
                              God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

                              I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by highrigger View Post
                                OR women pastorettes? OR other NON-BIBLICAL JUNK?

                                morefish,

                                There were plenty of women preachers even an apostle in the earliest days. Biblical too.


                                "The roles of women in positions of leadership in the early
                                church deserves special attention. It is clear that by the
                                end of the second century the official leadership of the church
                                was entirely masculine. But the matter is not quite as clear
                                in earlier times. Particularly in the New Testament, there are
                                indications that women also had postions of leadership. Phillip
                                had four daughters who 'prophesied' - that is, who preached.
                                Phoebe was a female deacon in Cenchreae, and Junia was counted
                                among the apostles. What actually seems to have taken place is
                                that during the second century, in its efforts to combat heresy,
                                the church centralized its authority, and a by-product of that
                                process was that women were excluded from positions of leadership.
                                But still in the early years of the second century, Governor
                                Pliny informed Trajan that he had ordered that two Christian
                                female ministers- ministrae - be tortured."
                                The Story of Christianity, Justol Gonzaliz, page 114.

                                "It has caught modern attention that Andronicus and Junia
                                (preferable to Junias) are "outstanding among the apostles" (Rom 16:7)
                                Junia/Junias is most likely a womans name, and she may have been the
                                wife of Andronicus. This identity would mean that Paul could apply
                                the term "apostle" to a woman."
                                Fr. Raymond Brown, An Introduction to the NT, page 574, Imprimatur.

                                JohnR
                                Try again. Prophets are not preachers. Junea was NEVER called an Apostle; she was just counted as LIKED by them.
                                Phoebe was a deaconness, not a preacher. Your 'father' brown seems to be a hack.
                                God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

                                I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

                                Comment

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