Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Dispensational pentecostals?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Dispensational pentecostals?

    I was looking up dispensationalism and it says that many pentecostals believe in it, but pentecostals are also historically arminian meaning you dont have eternal security in the "grace dispensation" as they call it. So how do these two things line up together? Since most dispies just go by Romans-Philemon and are Once saved always saved people?

    So do you know any pentecostals that are dispensational? Or are you one by any chance? Just curious!

  • #2
    I am, but I modified it a bit the fit the Biblical model.

    I am not OSAS, and the oneness pentecostals that teach the dispy doctrine do not teach OSAS.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Hakawaka View Post
      I was looking up dispensationalism and it says that many pentecostals believe in it, but pentecostals are also historically arminian meaning you dont have eternal security in the "grace dispensation" as they call it. So how do these two things line up together? Since most dispies just go by Romans-Philemon and are Once saved always saved people?

      So do you know any pentecostals that are dispensational? Or are you one by any chance? Just curious!
      Most Pentecostals (at least in the US) would generally be premillennial dispensationalist. What that has always meant to me is basically eschatology--rapture of the church, 7 year tribulation, and then a literal thousand year reign of Christ. In addition, it includes a belief in the continuation of God's covenant with national Israel and also includes a fondness for attempting to map Bible prophecy over current events, particularly in the Middle East.

      Not sure why that requires someone to believe in OSAS. Why must the Age of Grace necessitate OSAS? Might as well call it "the Age of Cheap Grace" or "the Age of Insulting the Spirit of Grace" (see Hebrews 10:29). It comes down to what you mean by "grace." Just because Pentecostals reject antinomianism (which the OSAS position often times amounts to) does not mean we reject grace!
      Last edited by ltwin; 04-01-18, 09:37 PM.
      I'm an evangelical, classical Pentecostal

      "I know what constituted an evangelical in former times; I have no clear notion what constitutes one now." ~ 7th Earl of Shaftesbury

      Relax, stay calm, and no matter what happens don't feed the trolls.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hakawaka View Post
        I was looking up dispensationalism and it says that many pentecostals believe in it, but pentecostals are also historically arminian meaning you dont have eternal security in the "grace dispensation" as they call it. So how do these two things line up together? Since most dispies just go by Romans-Philemon and are Once saved always saved people?

        So do you know any pentecostals that are dispensational? Or are you one by any chance? Just curious!
        I'm DISPENSATIONAL in the sense that as a NEW TESTAMENT CHARISMATIC/PENTECOSTAL CHRISTIAN who has been BORN AGAIN OF THE HOLY SPIRIT I understand that I NO LONGER have to "Temporarily Cover my SIN" with Livestock Blood, for the simple reason that JESUS BLOOD shed once for all doesn't COVER my SIN, But ELIMINATES it entirely (Hebrews 9).

        And since My OLD MAN IS DEAD ON THE CROSS with Him (Romans1-8), having been killed by the Law, I can no longer be condemned by it.

        Christians since John 20:22 live under a NEW COVENANT, and the OLD Covenant is past.

        The LAW is eternal, of course, and those who's SIN is NOT covered by the NEW Covenant, are doomed by it.

        There's a bunch more unimportant "Religious/Theological Baggage" in the "denominational definitions" of course. I couldn't care less.

        Salvation since the get-go has been by BIBLICAL FAITH and not by Works.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ltwin View Post

          Most Pentecostals (at least in the US) would generally be premillennial dispensationalist. What that has always meant to me is basically eschatology--rapture of the church, 7 year tribulation, and then a literal thousand year reign of Christ.
          The classic Pentecostal will be able
          to precisely forecast the Lord's coming,
          when his neighbour is raptured.


          But of that day and hour no one knows,
          not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only
          (Mt 24:36).

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

            I'm DISPENSATIONAL in the sense that as a NEW TESTAMENT CHARISMATIC/PENTECOSTAL CHRISTIAN who has been BORN AGAIN OF THE HOLY SPIRIT I understand that I NO LONGER have to "Temporarily Cover my SIN" with Livestock Blood, for the simple reason that JESUS BLOOD shed once for all doesn't COVER my SIN, But ELIMINATES it entirely (Hebrews 9).

            And since My OLD MAN IS DEAD ON THE CROSS with Him (Romans1-8), having been killed by the Law, I can no longer be condemned by it.

            Christians since John 20:22 live under a NEW COVENANT, and the OLD Covenant is past.

            The LAW is eternal, of course, and those who's SIN is NOT covered by the NEW Covenant, are doomed by it.

            There's a bunch more unimportant "Religious/Theological Baggage" in the "denominational definitions" of course. I couldn't care less.

            Salvation since the get-go has been by BIBLICAL FAITH and not by Works.
            Good post, but "WORKS of the Law", not salvation by works of faith per James.


            This "works" talk began as Jewish works of the Law, then, many centuries later, evolved into no water baptism etc.

            Modernists need a good baptism of 1st century thinking.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Truther View Post
              Good post, but "WORKS of the Law", not salvation by works of faith per James.
              Not even sure what you're trying to communicate here.

              "Works" (of any sort - the Mosaic LAW, the Catholic LAW, the Baptist LAW,whatever LAW) have nothing to do with being "Born again" / Saved / becoming a Christian. which has ALWAYS been by FAITH - PLUS NOTHING. The Holy SPirit convicts you of your SIN, and the door is open to salvation as long as HE does. YOUR part of the process is to REPENT of your SIN, Surrender to HIM and call on God for salvation through the Blood of Jesus which is your perfect SIN OFFERING that doesnt COVER your sin (as the old temple process did), but removes it totally.

              James is simply a "Litmus test" that you can apply to what you "CALL "FAITH" in order to determine whether or NOT it really IS Biblical Faith.

              Long story short, if "your version" of FAITH hasn't Changed you, and caused you to begin living the "Christ life" (since your OLD CARNAL life was crucified with Christ), then it's not Biblical FAITH AT ALL.

              SImple as that.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                "Works" (of any sort - the Mosaic LAW, the Catholic LAW, the Baptist LAW,whatever LAW) have nothing to do with being "Born again" / Saved / becoming a Christian.

                James is simply a "Litmus test"
                Wasn't James considered to be the word of God ????

                You see then that a man is justified by works,
                and not by faith only
                (Jas 2:24).
                Last edited by Conqueror; 04-15-18, 07:47 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

                  Wasn't James considered to be the word of God ????

                  You see then that a man is justified by works,
                  and not by faith only
                  (Jas 2:24).
                  ABSOLUTELY: James is one of the more Important books since he deals with questions of FAITH.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post


                    "Works" (of any sort - the Mosaic LAW, the Catholic LAW, the Baptist LAW,whatever LAW) have nothing to do with being "Born again" / Saved / becoming a Christian.

                    James is simply a "Litmus test"
                    Originally posted by Conqueror View Post


                    Wasn't James considered to be the word of God ????

                    You see then that a man is justified by works,
                    and not by faith only
                    (Jas 2:24).
                    Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                    ABSOLUTELY: James is one of the more Important books since he deals with questions of FAITH.
                    Christendom's god James teaches salvation by works,
                    which you opposed in post #8.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Conqueror View Post
                      Christendom's god James teaches salvation by works,
                      which you opposed in post #8.
                      Except, of course, that James does no such thing. Context context, context.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                        Except, of course, that James does no such thing. Context context, context.
                        Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post


                        "Works" (of any sort - the Mosaic LAW, the Catholic LAW, the Baptist LAW,whatever LAW) have nothing to do with being "Born again" / Saved / becoming a Christian.
                        You see then that a man is justified by works,
                        and not by faith only
                        (Jas 2:24).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                          Not even sure what you're trying to communicate here.

                          "Works" (of any sort - the Mosaic LAW, the Catholic LAW, the Baptist LAW,whatever LAW) have nothing to do with being "Born again" / Saved / becoming a Christian. which has ALWAYS been by FAITH - PLUS NOTHING. The Holy SPirit convicts you of your SIN, and the door is open to salvation as long as HE does. YOUR part of the process is to REPENT of your SIN, Surrender to HIM and call on God for salvation through the Blood of Jesus which is your perfect SIN OFFERING that doesnt COVER your sin (as the old temple process did), but removes it totally.

                          James is simply a "Litmus test" that you can apply to what you "CALL "FAITH" in order to determine whether or NOT it really IS Biblical Faith.

                          Long story short, if "your version" of FAITH hasn't Changed you, and caused you to begin living the "Christ life" (since your OLD CARNAL life was crucified with Christ), then it's not Biblical FAITH AT ALL.

                          SImple as that.
                          Nope, faith WITHOUT works is dead.

                          Dead faith is not good.

                          You gotta work out your own salvation, so dont be lazy.

                          It is modernism 101 that makes your only work to be saved a "confession"(which is still a work).

                          Again....the "works" spoken of in the N.T. were always regarding the Jews and the Law, never the Acts 2:38 and repentance expectation.

                          You have been snookered into believing in a plan B, Bob.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Truther View Post

                            Nope, faith WITHOUT works is dead.

                            Dead faith is not good.
                            Which deceiver taught you
                            that a God-given faith in Christ as Saviour
                            is a dead faith,
                            which eventually produces good works?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

                              Which deceiver taught you
                              that a God-given faith in Christ as Saviour
                              is a dead faith, which eventually produces works?
                              Oh that's right....you hate James.

                              You are so vain, man.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X