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No tongues meant no Spirit!

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  • nothead replied
    07-26-18, 01:15 PM
    Originally posted by Morefish View Post
    It is the modern-day 'pentecostals' that are trying in their 'slightly flawwed ATTEMPT to find the same blessings the upper room (AND OUTSIDE where the 3,000+ folks were). . .NOT us NORMAL CHRISTIANS.

    Satan wins when you modern-day 'pentecostals' fall for new superstions such as 'slain in the spirit,' 'name-it-and-claim-it religion' etc.
    I only saw two instances of being "slain." They were both legit far as I could tell. A young girl who looked amazed and struck with wonder. And an older former pastor who later said it had occurred with him often. For him it was like a very restful sleep.

    Being at peace with God and the world is not a small thing, sir.
    We CHRISTIANS (ALL of us) are at peace with God. I am at peace with the world, though I don't 'go along with' it. . . .SIN is something I want nothing to do with. . . but the WORLD seems to love.

    "slain in the spirit" is something invented by MAN and does not come from GOD. You will NOT find your lined ups 'fallers' and their 'catchers' with their 'modesty blankets' ANYWHERE IN THE CHURCH JESUS BUILT IN THE BIBLE. The emotional junk felt by those who DO that junk (or oink, bray, or quack) is NOT a 'sign' that it comes from GOD.

    Pentecostal superstitions remain pentecostal superstitions.





    God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

    I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Morefish View Post

      We CHRISTIANS (ALL of us) are at peace with God.
      There would be no need for future prophets to correct the born-again, if they weren't intoxicated on the Roman harlotry of adding to the FOUNDATIONAL apostles and prophets.
      Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

      Comment


      • Conqueror replied
        07-27-18, 10:25 PM
        Originally posted by Morefish View Post
        We CHRISTIANS (ALL of us) are at peace with God.
        I'm glad you agree.


        Now if you would care to join us by accepting ALL of the Word of God (INCLUDING the things written by Luke), please feel free to do so.

        God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

        I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Morefish View Post

          We CHRISTIANS (ALL of us) are at peace with God.


          Originally posted by Morefish View Post

          I'm glad you agree.


          Now if you would care to join us by accepting ALL of the Word of God (INCLUDING the things written by Luke), please feel free to do so.



          You wouldn't be able to maintain your rage against Pentecostals,
          without Luke's non-apostolic work.

          There would be no need for future prophets to correct the born-again, if they weren't intoxicated on the Roman harlotry of adding to the FOUNDATIONAL apostles and prophets.
          Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

          Comment


          • Conqueror replied
            07-27-18, 10:54 PM
            Originally posted by Morefish View Post
            We CHRISTIANS (ALL of us) are at peace with God.



            Originally posted by Morefish View Post
            I'm glad you agree.


            Now if you would care to join us by accepting ALL of the Word of God (INCLUDING the things written by Luke), please feel free to do so.


            You wouldn't be able to maintain your rage against Pentecostals,
            without Luke's non-apostolic work.
            Since that 'rage' only exists in YOUR perverted mind, it has nothing to do with me. I am at peace with God and the world. YOUR problem is YOUR OWN problem.
            God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

            I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post








              You wouldn't be able to maintain your rage against Pentecostals,
              without Luke's non-apostolic work.
              Ragin' against Luke again, brophy?

              Why oh why you got somethin' against the holy doctor sir? Take your medicine and SMILE sir, since you so MUCH at peace sir. Peacenik. I'll break your necklace and stomp it sir. Luke was a good guy sir. BELOVED of God. ANOINTED to render NT canon sir.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by forever4truth View Post
                The Biblical record in Acts shows that speaking in tongues was immediate and observable sign that the apostles looked for or were expecting that indicated "when" and "who" had received the gift of holy spirit, from those who had not. And I submit that the absence of this evidential sign was evidence that the Samaritans had not yet received the holy spirit.

                [Do you make this junk up as you go? Or was it fed to you by your handlers?]

                Pentecost:

                "And everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in languages they didn’t know, for the Holy Spirit gave them this ability" (Acts 2:4, TLB)

                [Of course the living Bible is a PARAPHRASE (which means 'in other words') from an English translation and IS NOT A TRANSLATION ITSELF AT ALL.]

                17 “‘In the last days, God says,
                I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
                Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
                your young men will see visions,
                your old men will dream dreams.
                18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
                I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
                and they will prophesy (Acts 2:17-18, NIV)

                NOT ONE WORD about tongues in the passage, of course. Dreams, visions, prophesy, but NOT ONE WORD ABOUT TONGUES.

                Peter understood the tongues spoken at Pentecost as the beginning of the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. Joel prophesied that the coming of the spirit in the last days would be accompanied or manifested by signs: prophesy, visions and dreams.

                [But of course, NOT ONE WORD about tongues in the whole passage. And YOU PRESUME to read Peter's mind? Haaaah!]

                Thus the idea of a silent or non-observable spirit-baptism reception is unquestionably not in keeping with what Joel prophesied about.

                [IS THIS 'silent or 'non-observable' thing your own invention, or was it fed to you by your handlers? Why do you IGNORE the IMPORTANT THINGS, such as a changed life, changed motivations, changed speech, changed direction in new believers? All you seem to want is to justify your pentecostalbabble that pentecostals (trinitarian and oneness), witch doctors and other heathens do and to ASSUME it must be a 'god-thing.'

                Prophesy, unlike the other two signs, is mentioned twice, and thus holds a significance that the other two accompanying signs do not.


                Caesarea:

                "45 The Jews who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit would be given to Gentiles too! 46-47 But there could be no doubt about it, for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.Peter asked, “Can anyone object to my baptizing them, now that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?” (Acts 10:45-46, TLB)

                "When I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as He did on us at the beginning [at Pentecost] (Acts 11:15, AMP)

                He fell on ME too. JUST AS HE DID, DIRECTLY FROM GOD (with no 'coaching') the Holy Spirit came to live WITHIN EVERY CHRISTIAN EVERYWHERE (Romans 8:9b) Not with tongues, but with a new man, changed life, changed attitudes, d changed motives, and a love for the WORD OF GOD, THE BIBLE. The Holy Spirit was promised to ALL CHRISTIANS EVERYWHERE in Acts 2:38b-39. To DENY THAT is to DENY THE WORD OF GOD.


                Ephesus:

                "When Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them in the same way the original disciples experienced at Pentecost: they spoke in tongues and prophesied.(Acts 19:6, VOICE)

                [another lousy translation. . .Do you pick your translations to find one that seems to agree with your presupposiions?

                NO original-language text says ANYTHING that can be legitimately translated "
                in the same way the original disciples experienced at Pentecost"

                A more HONEST TRANSLATION WOULD BE:

                Acts 19:5-7
                5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.
                NKJV


                NOT THE SAME.

                Samaria:

                I purposely saved the Samaritan account for last because although no detailed description is given, "tongues" is the only plausible evidential sign that harmonizes with the other spirit-baptism accounts in Acts.

                [Of course THAT IS YOUR PRESUMPTION. . .that there musta bin (though NOT ONE SCRIPTURE ANYWHERE SAYS SO) some 'evidential sign' that we receive Holy Spirit Baptism.]

                Indeed, if Peter recognized that tongues was the indisputable proof that the Gentiles received the spirit at Caesarea in Acts 10 because that is HOW the apostles received it at the beginning (Pentecost), then it logically follows tongues served as the indisputable proof the Samaritans had received the spirit, as well.

                [AAAh! Such EIsegesis! READING INTO TEXT that peter'recognized that tongues was the indisputable proof' of ANYTHING.or even that such 'poof' was needed. . .

                But of course modern-day 'pentecostals (trinitarian and oneness both), along with dervishers and voodoo witch doctors DO WHAT THEY DO JUST ALIKE, but the 'pentecostals' (BOTH kinds, HEATHEN AND TRINITARIAN ALIKE) say it is 'language' from God.]


                "who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" (Acts 8:15-16)

                We know for a fact that the Spirit was manifested or accompanied by a "visible" and "observable" sign for Luke reports:

                18 "And when Simon SAW that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 8:18-19, NKJV)

                [Adding your ASSUMPTIONS to scriptures? More 'junk theology' we see. . .As Dogbone Spittlemeir said on Thursday last week

                I <SNIPPED> your secular reference; it was meaningless. His OPINION is no more 'authoritative than yours is.]

                In short, that Philip, Peter and John were able to determine the holy spirit had not yet fallen unquestionably indicates that they were looking for or expecting a visible and/or "observable" sign to immediately accompany the infilling of the spirit, and the absence of said sign was indisputable proof they had not yet received the spirit.

                [More BLIND ASSUMPTION with NO SCRIPTURE TO SUPPORT YOUR THEORY that they were 'looking for or expecting' any such thing. Of course YOU must think they didn't see the DIFFERENCE in those who were saved from before that happened, don't you?

                Indeed, as I have told Morefish, a "silent" spirit-baptism experience is a non-Biblical concept.

                You even INVENTED A TERM, 'a "silent" spirit-baptism experience' which you seem DESPERATE to attribute to me. Didn't your mommy teach you to be more truthful? That they would NOTICE A CHANGE in the persons OTHER THAN BABBLING INCOHERENTLY in new believers shows only that YOU wouldn't know a new CHRISTIAN if he/she BIT YOU.]

                As the historical spirit-reception accounts in Acts show, in which a detailed description is given, tongues were the immediate evidential sign that indicated or attested the coming of the Spirit upon an individual. I implore you not to buy into the myth of a silent spirit-baptism account.[/color]

                Why should I buy into a myth THAT YOU MADE UP? Your garbage 'silent spirit-baptism account" simply shows your desperation. I merely know more than one person who did your pentecostalbabble 'thing' and returned to live UNMARRIED to women, and/or returned to their old man lifestyle in a matter of only a few weeks or less.

                GOD never required ANY 'visible and observable sign'. THE BIBLE NEVER SAYS HE DID.
                Peter NEVER EXPECTED IT. The BIBLE NEVER SAYS HE OR THE OTHERS DID. GOD NEVER SAID HE DID.


                [ALL of that garbage is from your own PRESUMPTIONS, nothing more.
                God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

                I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Morefish View Post

                  I merely know more than one person who did your pentecostalbabble 'thing' and returned to live UNMARRIED to women, and/or returned to their old man lifestyle in a matter of only a few weeks or less.
                  Not just Pentecostals, but all of Christianity
                  is condemned by the behaviour of one man.

                  That man isn't the one which was quoted,
                  but a cold-blooded aquatic creature
                  who takes inspiration from Westboro Baptists.

                  There would be no need for future prophets to correct the born-again, if they weren't intoxicated on the Roman harlotry of adding to the FOUNDATIONAL apostles and prophets.
                  Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by forever4truth View Post
                    The Biblical record in Acts shows that speaking in tongues was immediate and observable sign that the apostles looked for or were expecting that indicated "when" and "who" had received the gift of holy spirit, from those who had not. And I submit that the absence of this evidential sign was evidence that the Samaritans had not yet received the holy spirit.

                    Pentecost:

                    "And everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in languages they didn’t know, for the Holy Spirit gave them this ability" (Acts 2:4, TLB)

                    17 “‘In the last days, God says,
                    I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
                    Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
                    your young men will see visions,
                    your old men will dream dreams.
                    18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
                    I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
                    and they will prophesy (Acts 2:17-18, NIV)

                    Peter understood the tongues spoken at Pentecost as the beginning of the fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. Joel prophesied that the coming of the spirit in the last days would be accompanied or manifested by signs: prophesy, visions and dreams. Thus the idea of a silent or non-observable spirit-baptism reception is unquestionably not in keeping with what Joel prophesied about.

                    Prophesy, unlike the other two signs, is mentioned twice, and thus holds a significance that the other two accompanying signs do not.


                    Caesarea:

                    "45 The Jews who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit would be given to Gentiles too! 46-47 But there could be no doubt about it, for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.Peter asked, “Can anyone object to my baptizing them, now that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?” (Acts 10:45-46, TLB)

                    "When I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as He did on us at the beginning [at Pentecost] (Acts 11:15, AMP)

                    Ephesus:

                    "When Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them in the same way the original disciples experienced at Pentecost: they spoke in tongues and prophesied.(Acts 19:6, VOICE)

                    Samaria:

                    I purposely saved the Samaritan account for last because although no detailed description is given, "tongues" is the only plausible evidential sign that harmonizes with the other spirit-baptism accounts in Acts. Indeed, if Peter recognized that tongues was the indisputable proof that the Gentiles received the spirit at Caesarea in Acts 10 because that is HOW the apostles received it at the beginning (Pentecost), then it logically follows tongues served as the indisputable proof the Samaritans had received the spirit, as well.

                    "who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" (Acts 8:15-16)

                    We know for a fact that the Spirit was manifested or accompanied by a "visible" and "observable" sign for Luke reports:

                    18 "And when Simon SAW that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” (Acts 8:18-19, NKJV)

                    As James D G Dunn says in his book regarding the Samaritan account in Acts 8, Baptism in the Holy Spirit"

                    "As Mason once put it, 'It is the Holy Ghost Himself who falls upon men, and not His gifts.' Certainly Peter and John missed the manifestations, but they concluded that the Samaritans lacked the Spirit, not spiritual gifts. No gifts meant no Spirit.6

                    6. 'No one seems to have said, "Perhaps these believers have received the Spirit quietly and unconsciously"' (Harper, Power, 26)

                    James D G Dunn, Baptism in the Holy Spirit (Philadelphia, PA: Westminster Press, 1970) p 56.

                    In short, that Philip, Peter and John were able to determine the holy spirit had not yet fallen unquestionably indicates that they were looking for or expecting a visible and/or "observable" sign to immediately accompany the infilling of the spirit, and the absence of said sign was indisputable proof they had not yet received the spirit.

                    Indeed, as I have told Morefish, a "silent" spirit-baptism experience is a non-Biblical concept.

                    As the historical spirit-reception accounts in Acts show, in which a detailed description is given, tongues were the immediate evidential sign that indicated or attested the coming of the Spirit upon an individual. I implore you not to buy into the myth of a silent spirit-baptism account.[/color]





                    And as I have told YOU, 'your silent spirit-baptism' is a figment of YOUR OWN IMAGINATION.

                    Apparently you have never SEEN or HEARD a new CHRISTIAN. Never MET ONE.


                    We CHRISTIANS are changed from the 'old man' into the 'new man.' There are DRASTIC changes God has put into us. Babbling gibberish is NOT from God at all. But 'newness of life' IS. CHANGED LIVES ARE.

                    Sorry if you think that is somehow 'silent. . .'

                    Your imaginary 'silent spirit-baptism' is not believed by ANYONE BUT YOU yourself.


                    God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

                    I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Morefish View Post


                      We CHRISTIANS are changed from the 'old man' into the 'new man.'
                      Got any takers who believe,
                      that the one like the Westboro Baptists is changed?


                      .
                      There would be no need for future prophets to correct the born-again, if they weren't intoxicated on the Roman harlotry of adding to the FOUNDATIONAL apostles and prophets.
                      Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                      Comment

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