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How does one interpret babbling nonsense in the Charismatic churches

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  • How does one interpret babbling nonsense in the Charismatic churches

    We have quite the discussions on this board regarding the Spirit gifts of tongues (other earthly languages) vs the common Charismatic practice of ecstatic glossolalia which has no scriptural basis whatever and actually has origins based only in Satanism and paganism.

    I have brought this up (and I am sure others have too) and unless I am missing something somewhere it seems Charismatics never answers this.How do you think you can interpet babbling nonsense???

    Someone asked me here, Is there any language God cannot understand? My answer to that is:

    ONE: Babbling nonsense is not a language

    TWO: You are totally missing the point. Tongues were not meant for God, they were meant for US.

    Tongues were meant to edify the church to the unbeliever speaking the Word of God IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGES (1 Cor 14:22, Acts 2:6-11)

    This has been brought up countless times but for the sake of the thread I will bring it up again.

    Charismatics accept 1 Cor 14:2 and other passages as supporting their belief in ecstatic babbling but it says nothing of the kind.

    Just because it says NO MAN understands him, that does not mean no man in the world, it only means no man IN THE AREA.

    God is not the author of confusion, people, so tell me how does babbling nonsense edify the church as we are called to? (1 Cor 14:3-4)

    Therefore God forbade tongues speakers to speak to the church save that there be someone who can interpret (1 Cor 14:27-28). This is about keeping order in the church.

    I have heard that there are those among the Charismatics that actually believe they can interpret this nonsense. This is pure lying fantasy.

    So I would really like to know why those here actually think they can interpret babbling?

  • #2
    Originally posted by TheMatrixHasU71 View Post
    We have quite the discussions on this board regarding the Spirit gifts of tongues (other earthly languages) vs the common Charismatic practice of ecstatic glossolalia which has no scriptural basis whatever and actually has origins based only in Satanism and paganism.

    I have brought this up (and I am sure others have too) and unless I am missing something somewhere it seems Charismatics never answers this.How do you think you can interpet babbling nonsense???

    Someone asked me here, Is there any language God cannot understand? My answer to that is:

    ONE: Babbling nonsense is not a language.

    TWO: You are totally missing the point. Tongues were not meant for God, they were meant for US.

    Tongues were meant to edify the church to the unbeliever speaking the Word of God IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGES (1 Cor 14:22, Acts 2:6-11)
    Just to clarify, are you actually suggesting that Paul in 1 Cor. 12-14 is teaching that the gift of different kinds of languages are languages KNOWN by the unbelievers present in the Church?

    << snip >>

    Comment


    • #3
      “Interpretation of tongues”, frequently going hand-in-hand with ‘speaking in tongues’, may also be said to be a self-created phenomenon. Interpretation is ‘spiritual improv’ of sorts, inspired by one’s deep faith and beliefs. Interpretations are characterized by being (typically) inordinately longer than the actual glossic utterance, rather generic and non-specific in nature, and perhaps not surprisingly, open to multiple non-related ‘interpretations’. In “tongues”, a ‘big brown dog, can also be a ‘small white cat’. These latter two characteristics do not suggest anything that is divinely inspired.

      The common come-back to the interpretation issue is that God/the Holy Spirit gives different interpretations to different people. Pentecostal Darwinism does not exist – there’s no mutation or transformation of one message into several for the sake of justifying an obvious discrepancy. If this were the case, it would completely eradicate the need for ‘tongues’ in the first place.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TheMatrixHasU71 View Post
        We have quite the discussions on this board regarding the Spirit gifts of tongues (other earthly languages) vs the common Charismatic practice of ecstatic glossolalia which has no scriptural basis whatever and actually has origins based only in Satanism and paganism.

        I have brought this up (and I am sure others have too) and unless I am missing something somewhere it seems Charismatics never answers this.How do you think you can interpet babbling nonsense???

        Someone asked me here, Is there any language God cannot understand? My answer to that is:

        ONE: Babbling nonsense is not a language

        TWO: You are totally missing the point. Tongues were not meant for God, they were meant for US.

        Tongues were meant to edify the church to the unbeliever speaking the Word of God IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGES (1 Cor 14:22, Acts 2:6-11)

        This has been brought up countless times but for the sake of the thread I will bring it up again.

        Charismatics accept 1 Cor 14:2 and other passages as supporting their belief in ecstatic babbling but it says nothing of the kind.

        Just because it says NO MAN understands him, that does not mean no man in the world, it only means no man IN THE AREA.

        God is not the author of confusion, people, so tell me how does babbling nonsense edify the church as we are called to? (1 Cor 14:3-4)

        Therefore God forbade tongues speakers to speak to the church save that there be someone who can interpret (1 Cor 14:27-28). This is about keeping order in the church.

        I have heard that there are those among the Charismatics that actually believe they can interpret this nonsense. This is pure lying fantasy.

        So I would really like to know why those here actually think they can interpret babbling?
        EDIT NOT English, divisive nonsense
        Last edited by Mod8; 06-30-18, 10:21 PM.
        God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

        I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

        Comment


        • #5
          Gifts of the Spirit, including...the gift of interpretation...are not mere human abilities...they are given by the Holy Spirit...so, just because YOU hear "babbling nonsense"....you've decided that the "gift of interpretation" needs to be a human understanding of the message in tongues?"....Only your opinion, and not at all scriptural.....also, tongues are not mean to "edify the unbeliever"...tongues edify the speaker....and when followed by the gift of interpretation...edify the church...so then, is the Spiritual gift of interpretation....given by the Holy Spirit...just that, a supernatural spiritual gift....or translation by a human who understands the tongue? (1 Corinthians 14:5)

          Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; (if the scripture states speaking in tongues is speaking to God, then who are you to argue?) howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

          Tongues by themselves are not edifying to the church...so when someone uses the supernatural gift of tongues in the church, the supernatural gift of interpretation will follow..... Mere speaking in tongues...is prayer and like all prayer is simply speaking to God.....1 Corinthians 14:2...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Morefish View Post

            deleted
            LOL yeah.....
            Last edited by Mod8; 06-30-18, 10:22 PM. Reason: quote box

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by onelamb View Post
              Gifts of the Spirit, including...the gift of interpretation...are not mere human abilities...they are given by the Holy Spirit...so, just because YOU hear "babbling nonsense"....you've decided that the "gift of interpretation" needs to be a human understanding of the message in tongues?"....Only your opinion, and not at all scriptural.....also, tongues are not mean to "edify the unbeliever"...tongues edify the speaker....and when followed by the gift of interpretation...edify the church...so then, is the Spiritual gift of interpretation....given by the Holy Spirit...just that, a supernatural spiritual gift....or translation by a human who understands the tongue? (1 Corinthians 14:5)

              Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; (if the scripture states speaking in tongues is speaking to God, then who are you to argue?) howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

              Tongues by themselves are not edifying to the church...so when someone uses the supernatural gift of tongues in the church, the supernatural gift of interpretation will follow..... Mere speaking in tongues...is prayer and like all prayer is simply speaking to God.....1 Corinthians 14:2...
              *****2For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; (if the scripture states speaking in tongues is speaking to God, then who are you to argue?) howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries*****

              I have already explained that one about 20x by now.....I do not know why the truth is so hard for you to understand.



              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by forever4truth View Post

                Just to clarify, are you actually suggesting that Paul in 1 Cor. 12-14 is teaching that the gift of different kinds of languages are languages KNOWN by the unbelievers present in the Church?

                << snip >>
                And if no one understands them it is only that no one in the immediate area of the church doesnt understand them, but someone somewhere will.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kavik View Post
                  “Interpretation of tongues”, frequently going hand-in-hand with ‘speaking in tongues’, may also be said to be a self-created phenomenon. Interpretation is ‘spiritual improv’ of sorts, inspired by one’s deep faith and beliefs. Interpretations are characterized by being (typically) inordinately longer than the actual glossic utterance, rather generic and non-specific in nature, and perhaps not surprisingly, open to multiple non-related ‘interpretations’. In “tongues”, a ‘big brown dog, can also be a ‘small white cat’. These latter two characteristics do not suggest anything that is divinely inspired.

                  The common come-back to the interpretation issue is that God/the Holy Spirit gives different interpretations to different people. Pentecostal Darwinism does not exist – there’s no mutation or transformation of one message into several for the sake of justifying an obvious discrepancy. If this were the case, it would completely eradicate the need for ‘tongues’ in the first place.
                  In its modern sense I would agree.

                  But in ancient times, if one spoke say, Chinese, in the church and obviously no one in Greece or Rome or wherever nearby spoke that language, that doesnt mean no one in the world. So such people were commanded to speak to God alone save that God give the gift of interpreting Chinese to that person or someone else. And there are no multiple interpretations for the genuine gift of tongues and interpretation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TheMatrixHasU71 View Post

                    And if no one understands them it is only that no one in the immediate area of the church doesnt understand them, but someone somewhere will.
                    That's not what the scripture says....As a matter of fact, Paul states that he speaks in tongues quite a bit, as prayer, (speaking to God)..but not in the church unless the gift of interpretation follows....1 Corinthians 14:18,19

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TheMatrixHasU71 View Post

                      *****2For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; (if the scripture states speaking in tongues is speaking to God, then who are you to argue?) howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries*****

                      I have already explained that one about 20x by now.....I do not know why the truth is so hard for you to understand.


                      I'll tell you why...it's because YOUR so called truth, doesn't agree with scripture...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TheMatrixHasU71 View Post

                        In its modern sense I would agree.

                        But in ancient times, if one spoke say, Chinese, in the church and obviously no one in Greece or Rome or wherever nearby spoke that language, that doesnt mean no one in the world. So such people were commanded to speak to God alone save that God give the gift of interpreting Chinese to that person or someone else. And there are no multiple interpretations for the genuine gift of tongues and interpretation.
                        Yes, exactly - with respect to 1 Cor. 14:13-14 -

                        If I attend a worship service in ‘East Haystack’, Alabama two things are going to be evident: one; there’s only going to be so many people at that service (i.e. there will be a finite given amount of people there) and two; the chances that anyone in East Haystack speaks anything *but* English is pretty slim to nil. If I start praying aloud in say Lithuanian, there’s no one at that service that’s going to understand a bloody word I’m saying. Even though I’m speaking a real language, no one _there_ will understand my “tongue”. That does not mean or imply that _no_ one else understands Lithuanian; just no one at _that particular service_.

                        There’s a few things here to note – first, the passage in no way even remotely suggests that the speaker does not understand what he himself is saying; it’s the audience who do not understand, as they don’t speak his language. It ends up being a real language “no one understands” (within that given context). To the people listening to me, I am speaking “mysteries”. An idiomatic expression akin to our “it’s all Greek to me”, i.e. we have no clue what he’s saying; thus, he’s “speaking mysteries”.

                        In this case here, the speaker should pray that he is able to secure a translator ('interpreter' - i.e. pray that he may interpret (for the benefit of all there)); or, if no translator is available and the speaker doesn't know enough Greek to accurately translate himself, he should remain silent and just pray to himself (and God).


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kavik View Post

                          Yes, exactly - with respect to 1 Cor. 14:13-14 -

                          If I attend a worship service in ‘East Haystack’, Alabama two things are going to be evident: one; there’s only going to be so many people at that service (i.e. there will be a finite given amount of people there) and two; the chances that anyone in East Haystack speaks anything *but* English is pretty slim to nil. If I start praying aloud in say Lithuanian, there’s no one at that service that’s going to understand a bloody word I’m saying. Even though I’m speaking a real language, no one _there_ will understand my “tongue”. That does not mean or imply that _no_ one else understands Lithuanian; just no one at _that particular service_.

                          There’s a few things here to note – first, the passage in no way even remotely suggests that the speaker does not understand what he himself is saying; it’s the audience who do not understand, as they don’t speak his language. It ends up being a real language “no one understands” (within that given context). To the people listening to me, I am speaking “mysteries”. An idiomatic expression akin to our “it’s all Greek to me”, i.e. we have no clue what he’s saying; thus, he’s “speaking mysteries”.

                          In this case here, the speaker should pray that he is able to secure a translator ('interpreter' - i.e. pray that he may interpret (for the benefit of all there)); or, if no translator is available and the speaker doesn't know enough Greek to accurately translate himself, he should remain silent and just pray to himself (and God).


                          actually, the Bible does....and more than remotely...suggest that the speaker DOES NOT understand the tongue....the gift of tongues, like the gift of interpretation...are given by the Holy Spirit and does NOT include the natural ability to speak in a different language.....or "translate" said language.

                          For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don't understand what I am saying. 1 Corinthians 14:14

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kavik View Post

                            Yes, exactly - with respect to 1 Cor. 14:13-14 -

                            If I attend a worship service in ‘East Haystack’, Alabama two things are going to be evident: one; there’s only going to be so many people at that service (i.e. there will be a finite given amount of people there) and two; the chances that anyone in East Haystack speaks anything *but* English is pretty slim to nil. If I start praying aloud in say Lithuanian, there’s no one at that service that’s going to understand a bloody word I’m saying. Even though I’m speaking a real language, no one _there_ will understand my “tongue”. That does not mean or imply that _no_ one else understands Lithuanian; just no one at _that particular service_.

                            There’s a few things here to note – first, the passage in no way even remotely suggests that the speaker does not understand what he himself is saying; it’s the audience who do not understand, as they don’t speak his language. It ends up being a real language “no one understands” (within that given context). To the people listening to me, I am speaking “mysteries”. An idiomatic expression akin to our “it’s all Greek to me”, i.e. we have no clue what he’s saying; thus, he’s “speaking mysteries”.

                            In this case here, the speaker should pray that he is able to secure a translator ('interpreter' - i.e. pray that he may interpret (for the benefit of all there)); or, if no translator is available and the speaker doesn't know enough Greek to accurately translate himself, he should remain silent and just pray to himself (and God).

                            Amen. I wish people here could understand that. Its so simple.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Morefish View Post

                              deleted
                              I can interpret this for you. You just said in tongues, "Jesus is Lord, Jesus is the light of the world".

                              Throw another one my way.
                              Last edited by Mod8; 06-30-18, 10:23 PM. Reason: quote box

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