Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

When is healing REALLY healing?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • When is healing REALLY healing?

    I visited a pentecostal church a couple of years ago and the pastor preached on 'Healing." He told of a woman who was 'healed' at a pentecostal service of a large tumor on her neck. The tumor remained visible to all for several years, then went away.

    IS THAT YOUR VERSION of 'Biblical healng?'

    WHERE IN THE BIBLE does ANYTHING LIKE THAT ever occur? Or did the person 'pick up his mat and walk' IMMEDIATELY or did he 'wais 3 years?

    In my BIBLE every single 'healing' was INSTANT AND COMPLETE AT ONCE, not just pretended junk like many pentecostals do today.

    I see NO 'healing services' in the Bible either.

    Modern-day 'pentecostals' are SO SUPERSTITIOUS.
    God's Word (Scripture) will convince me. YOUR argument is your own.

    I want to be so full of Jesus that if a mosquito bites me, he will fly away singing 'there's power in the blood. . .' (author unknown)

  • #2
    Originally posted by Morefish View Post
    I visited a pentecostal church a couple of years ago and the pastor preached on 'Healing." He told of a woman who was 'healed' at a pentecostal service of a large tumor on her neck. The tumor remained visible to all for several years, then went away.

    IS THAT YOUR VERSION of 'Biblical healng?'

    WHERE IN THE BIBLE does ANYTHING LIKE THAT ever occur? Or did the person 'pick up his mat and walk' IMMEDIATELY or did he 'wais 3 years?

    In my BIBLE every single 'healing' was INSTANT AND COMPLETE AT ONCE, not just pretended junk like many pentecostals do today.

    I see NO 'healing services' in the Bible either.

    Modern-day 'pentecostals' are SO SUPERSTITIOUS.
    Just wondering on what your input is about the following verse..

    James 5:13 Is any one of you suffering? He should pray. Is anyone cheerful? He should sing praises. 14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Morefish View Post
      I visited a pentecostal church a couple of years ago and the pastor preached on 'Healing." He told of a woman who was 'healed' at a pentecostal service of a large tumor on her neck. The tumor remained visible to all for several years, then went away.

      IS THAT YOUR VERSION of 'Biblical healng?'

      WHERE IN THE BIBLE does ANYTHING LIKE THAT ever occur? Or did the person 'pick up his mat and walk' IMMEDIATELY or did he 'wais 3 years?

      In my BIBLE every single 'healing' was INSTANT AND COMPLETE AT ONCE, not just pretended junk like many pentecostals do today.

      Luke 17:11-14

      11 Now on his way to Jerusalem, Jesus traveled along the border between Samaria and Galilee. 12 As he was going into a village, ten men who had leprosy met him. They stood at a distance 13 and called out in a loud voice, "Jesus, Master, have pity on us!"
      14 When he saw them, he said, "Go, show yourselves to the priests." And as they went, they were cleansed.
      NIV

      In this account, those 10 men were not healed immediately, but "as they went." You are confusing a healing with a miracle. Miracles are instantaneous, healings are over time. When the Bible records a healing that was instantaneous, it was actually a miracle.


      I see NO 'healing services' in the Bible either.

      Modern-day 'pentecostals' are SO SUPERSTITIOUS.
      There are at least two that fit the bill:

      Mark 6:53-56

      53 When they had crossed over, they landed at Gennesaret and anchored there. 54 As soon as they got out of the boat, people recognized Jesus. 55 They ran throughout that whole region and carried the sick on mats to wherever they heard he was. 56 And wherever he went — into villages, towns or countryside — they placed the sick in the marketplaces. They begged him to let them touch even the edge of his cloak, and all who touched him were healed.
      NIV

      Acts 5:14-16
      Nevertheless, more and more men and women believed in the Lord and were added to their number. 15 As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peter's shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by. 16 Crowds gathered also from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing their sick and those tormented by evil spirits, and all of them were healed.
      NIV
      Allen (Unless noted otherwise, Bible quotations are from the 1984 edition of the NIV)

      Faith--Sees the invisible, believes the incredible, and receives the impossible.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Morefish View Post
        [COLOR=#006400][B]I visited a pentecostal church a couple of years ago and the pastor preached on 'Healing." He told of a woman who was 'healed' at a pentecostal service of a large tumor on her neck. The tumor remained visible to all for several years, then went away.

        IS THAT YOUR VERSION of 'Biblical healng?'
        Possibly. You appear to have forgotten the Biblical definition of FAITH - i.e. the SUBSTANCE of the thing you HOPE for, and the EVIDENCE of what you don't see. The "woman" apparently POSSESSED her healing in FAITH - for several years before it manifested.

        The pastor Sunday was teaching on "crossing the Red Sea". So the story goes God opens the sea, the people cross on dry land to the other side, the Egyptian army starts across, and God closes the Sea on 'em, wiping them out. And the People all have a celebratory blowout (I will sing unto the Lord for He - etc.).

        Pastor said that it was an EXCELLENT and truthful celebration - BUT - It would have been MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT if Israel had done it on the OTHER SIDE of the Red Sea when they were trapped, and Egypt was coming!!!

        ANY FOOL can rejoice AFTER the provision comes. But God's looking for folks who rejoice in HIM before there's any provision, in the FAITH that He will Make a way, where there IS NO WAY. Israel made a good celebration, but after the plagues of Egypt, and the opening of the Red Sea, they HAD LEARNED NOTHING, and were back to Complaining and wanting to go back to Egypt THREE DAYS LATER!!!!

        I'm not healed of my "Advanced Coronary Artery Disease" - but that's rather unimportant. 13 heart attacks, 21 stents, 1 Rotoblator procedure, and two open hearts, and at 76, I'm still working full time as the lead Engineer for my company. People look at my life and continued functionality as somewhat miraculous, and according to medical science, I SHOULD have died back in '04 so the joke's on THEM.

        I've learned NOT to try to get God in a box, since He'll always kick the ends out, and go His OWN WAY.

        Sometimes it's instant, sometimes it's gradual, sometimes it's held in abatement, and sometimes you have to wash in the Pool of Siloam (or 7 times in the Jordan) before anything happens. God is sovereign, and Does things the way HE wants to do 'em.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

          Possibly. You appear to have forgotten the Biblical definition of FAITH - i.e. the SUBSTANCE of the thing you HOPE for, and the EVIDENCE of what you don't see. The "woman" apparently POSSESSED her healing in FAITH - for several years before it manifested.
          That is not the definition of faith. It is FAITH in action. The is the expression of faith.

          verse 6 defines faith.

          Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

          This is simple faith.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post

            That is not the definition of faith. It is FAITH in action. The is the expression of faith.

            verse 6 defines faith.

            Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

            This is simple faith.
            SO Hebrews 11:1 lies. Who would have thought it??

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

              SO Hebrews 11:1 lies. Who would have thought it??
              Never said it lied. I said it is the expression of faith. It is NOT the definition of faith. Read your bible again.

              You can not get a definition of faith from verse 1. There is no definition there. It simply states that faith gives assurance and gives evidence to things unseen.

              You get these BY.... "Believing God is WHO He says He is and believing that HE will DO exactly what HE says HE will do.

              I can't help you've listened to the traditions of men your entire life instead of reading it for yourself and breaking the statement into its pieces to understand it. So keep on believing what someone else says about.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post

                Never said it lied. I said it is the expression of faith. It is NOT the definition of faith. Read your bible again.

                You can not get a definition of faith from verse 1. There is no definition there. It simply states that faith gives assurance and gives evidence to things unseen.
                Which are the two attributes which completely DEFINE Biblical faith, of course.

                When the Bible says that "FAITH IS" - that's a pretty good clue that the definition of FAITH will follow. And what follows is an account of what FAITH accomplishes, when it exists.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                  Which are the two attributes which completely DEFINE Biblical faith, of course.

                  When the Bible says that "FAITH IS" - that's a pretty good clue that the definition of FAITH will follow. And what follows is an account of what FAITH accomplishes, when it exists.
                  Have you ever looked up the English word "is"? Its rather obvious you haven't.

                  I can say that Faith is "blind". Yet, that does not define the essence of faith. It simply states a particular fact about faith. I can say "love is" mushy but that doesn't define the essence of "love".

                  Maybe you should study the word "is" again. It is the third person singular of "be" or "faith in action"..... BE!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post

                    Have you ever looked up the English word "is"? Its rather obvious you haven't.

                    I can say that Faith is "blind". Yet, that does not define the essence of faith. It simply states a particular fact about faith. I can say "love is" mushy but that doesn't define the essence of "love".

                    Maybe you should study the word "is" again. It is the third person singular of "be" or "faith in action"..... BE!
                    However, Heb 11:1 DOES "define the ESSENCE" of Faith - i.e. It has to possess "SUBSTANCE" A definitive reality of existence. And it has to be an EVIDENCE that what you Don't see (yet) is really, and without any question, on the way.

                    Oh - and Biblical Faith is NEVER BLIND - because it is ALWAYS based on God's Word to YOU. It's "Blind" in the sense that you don't "See" it (because when you DO see it, there's no need for FAITH any longer) - but you know POSITIVELY that it's THERE, because God TOLD YOU that it is.

                    Simple as that. But play your little word games if you have to -
                    Last edited by Bob Carabbio; 10-08-18, 04:16 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                      However, Heb 11:1 DOES "define the ESSENCE" of Faith - i.e. It has to possess "SUBSTANCE" A definitive reality of existence. And it has to be an EVIDENCE that what you Don't see (yet) is really, and without any question, on the way.
                      This is the attribute of what faith becomes. It GIVES substance. It is faith in action. It gives EVIDENCE to things unseen. You own definition above says this. You're just trying to deny it.

                      Oh - and Biblical Faith is NEVER BLIND - because it is ALWAYS based on God's Word to YOU. It's "Blind" in the sense that you don't "See" it (because when you DO see it, there's no need for FAITH any longer) - but you know POSITIVELY that it's THERE, because God TOLD YOU that it is.

                      Simple as that. But play your little word games if you have to -
                      Not playing word games at all.

                      The very essence of Faith is in verse 6. Verse 6 begins with the very statement and intent to define faith.

                      Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him:

                      1. for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
                      2. and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

                      IF you believe # 1 and # 2, this GIVES SUBSTANCE and EVIDENCE to the believer. FAITH.

                      Say whatever you want to say. I'm not playing word games. I'm just trying to get it right. It is right there in front of you. There is no need to hold on the traditions of men.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by praise_yeshua View Post

                        This is the attribute of what faith becomes. It GIVES substance. It is faith in action. It gives EVIDENCE to things unseen. You own definition above says this. You're just trying to deny it.



                        Not playing word games at all.

                        The very essence of Faith is in verse 6. Verse 6 begins with the very statement and intent to define faith.

                        Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him:

                        1. for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
                        2. and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

                        IF you believe # 1 and # 2, this GIVES SUBSTANCE and EVIDENCE to the believer. FAITH.

                        Say whatever you want to say. I'm not playing word games. I'm just trying to get it right. It is right there in front of you. There is no need to hold on the traditions of men.

                        Personally I prefer Rom 10:17, and Mark 11:22-24.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                          Personally I prefer Rom 10:17, and Mark 11:22-24.
                          Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. People believing the words of the faithful. Those who believe that God is who He is and that He rewards those who deligently seek Him. Faith to faith.

                          Comment


                          • #14



                            Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                            However, Heb 11:1 DOES "define the ESSENCE" of Faith - i.e. It has to possess "SUBSTANCE"
                            Now faith is the substance of things hoped for,
                            the evidence of things not seen
                            (Heb 11:1).

                            Current faith isn't evidence, when salvation can be lost.


                            .................

                            Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post
                            Does ANYBODY REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW IT ALL WORKS??

                            The ones who lack understanding aren't equipped to teach.


                            .
                            The 2 end-time prophets will preach a return to the FOUNDATIONAL apostles and prophets to those, who are intoxicated on the Roman harlotry of adding tares to the word of God
                            Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This is a subject close to my heart! I have relied on God for everything in my life – my friend, my guide, my Comforter, my protector and above all, my physician. It’s all about following Christ and listening, not about trying to fix matter.

                              All through the New Testament, sṓzō ,the root of the Greek word appearing as salvation, is also used for healing. It is a broader term in Greek than we often think of in English. As well as rescue or deliverance from danger, destruction and peril; restoration to a state of safety; sṓzō also means, soundness, health, wholeness and wellbeing. So “being saved” also means being healed, being made whole, cured, protected. Whole, holy and heal are all closely related. Here are a few examples (taken from various translations):

                              Matt 9:21 If I do but touch his garment, I shall be made whole.
                              Mark 5:23 My little daughter is at the point of death; [please] come and lay Your hands on her, so that she will get well and live.
                              Mark 5:34 Daughter, your faith has healed you.
                              Mark 10:52 “Go,” said Jesus, “your faith has cured you.” Instantly he regained his sight.
                              Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” [The sinner in Simon’s house]
                              Luke 8:36 Those who had seen it told the people how the demon-possessed man had been cured.
                              John 11:12 Lord, if he is fallen asleep, he will recover.

                              In all of the above, the italicised words are from that same root sṓzō, describing salvation! This online lexicon gives further examples of the uses of the word in the New Testament.

                              In the first epistle of John, we are told that:

                              For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)

                              And Christ described the woman, bent over double by a spirit, as:

                              “…one whom Satan had bound” (Luke 13:10-17).

                              Christ Jesus frequently healed those who were “possessed with a devil”, with the result that the individual was freed from the torture they were in. He told Pilate that the reason he was born and came into the world was to “bear witness to the truth” (John 18:37) and he promised that we would know the truth and that truth “would make us free” (John 8:32).

                              The Savior also told us that he was “the way, the truth, and the life” – Christ is the way we know God. I understand that it was the purpose of Jesus' mission to provide a remedy for all evil; to destroy the evil of disease and suffering as well as the evil of sin. He did not separate the destruction of all evil and sin from the healing of physical disease and infirmities (and even death), because disease and all discordant conditions of the human experience, as well as sin, are the works of the devil, evil, which Christ destroys.

                              Jesus said, " By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." (John 13:35)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X