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Mary's perpetual virginity

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  • JoeT said:
    John 2:1 says that Mary is the Mother of God. Unless of course you wish to say Jesus is not God.
    Look at your response... "John 2:1 SAYS..." John 2:1 does not SAY Mary is the mother of God! Was Mary alive eons ago?? We know that Jesus is God, we believe He is the "I AM", spoken about in the OT and reiterated in the NT. Was Mary the mother at the time, of the "I AM" of the OT?? It just isn't sinking in that she was the mother of Jesus. She could not make God (who already existed) within her body, but she could make and deliver a human body mixed with the (already God) seed bestowed upon her.

    Consequently, Jesus Christ is God, Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ, Hence, Mary is the mother of God
    Your conclusion. No one denies that Mary had part in bringing forth a fleshly man,co mingled with the holy thing (Lk. 1:35)supplied by God. But she is not the mother of God in the sense that she was around from the beginning of time. She was the mother of Jesus, whom she helped form and whom was born from her. She is not the Queen mother of God nor deserves a spot reserved for her on the throne of God. Nor was she the IC. Jesus had to represent fallen mankind to save them. If Mary was faultless/sinless then Jesus was not in a position to represent/ die for sinners. The scriptures make clear His role.
    "But made himself of no reputation (as in the form of God vs.6), and took upon him the form [morphe= characteristic, nature] of a servant, and was made in the likeness [homoioma= to be like, the same] of men. And being in fashion [schema= external condition] as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.." (Phill. 2:7,8).
    "Wherefore in all things it behooved [opheilo, (from the base ophelos)= must need, benefited, gained, advantageous, under obligation] him to be made like [homoioma= to be like, the same] (as above) unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted (tested) he is able to succor (help) them that are tempted." (Heb. 2:17,18)
    "For we have not a high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities (weaknesses); but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Heb. 4:15).
    Christ was fashioned like us, it was advantageous to do so. Born from a sinless Mary, doesn't get the job done. Furthermore, if Mary was sinless, then why cant she just die for all humanity? But, alas, she can't... she is not God, who can re-create us, forgive our sins, represent us.

    If we try to do it your way we have Mary is not the mother of God, Mary is the mother of Jesus, from which it would be logical to conclude Jesus is NOT God.
    JoeT
    Logical to only Joe's way of thinking.
    Mary is simply a human being who is a sinner and needs a Savior to save her as well.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by William C. View Post
      Look at your response... "John 2:1 SAYS..." John 2:1 does not SAY Mary is the mother of God! Was Mary alive eons ago?? We know that Jesus is God, we believe He is the "I AM", spoken about in the OT and reiterated in the NT. Was Mary the mother at the time, of the "I AM" of the OT?? It just isn't sinking in that she was the mother of Jesus. She could not make God (who already existed) within her body, but she could make and deliver a human body mixed with the (already God) seed bestowed upon her.


      Your conclusion. No one denies that Mary had part in bringing forth a fleshly man,co mingled with the holy thing (Lk. 1:35)supplied by God. But she is not the mother of God in the sense that she was around from the beginning of time. She was the mother of Jesus, whom she helped form and whom was born from her. She is not the Queen mother of God nor deserves a spot reserved for her on the throne of God. Nor was she the IC. Jesus had to represent fallen mankind to save them. If Mary was faultless/sinless then Jesus was not in a position to represent/ die for sinners. The scriptures make clear His role.
      "But made himself of no reputation (as in the form of God vs.6), and took upon him the form [morphe= characteristic, nature] of a servant, and was made in the likeness [homoioma= to be like, the same] of men. And being in fashion [schema= external condition] as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.." (Phill. 2:7,8).
      "Wherefore in all things it behooved [opheilo, (from the base ophelos)= must need, benefited, gained, advantageous, under obligation] him to be made like [homoioma= to be like, the same] (as above) unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted (tested) he is able to succor (help) them that are tempted." (Heb. 2:17,18)
      "For we have not a high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities (weaknesses); but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Heb. 4:15).
      Christ was fashioned like us, it was advantageous to do so. Born from a sinless Mary, doesn't get the job done. Furthermore, if Mary was sinless, then why cant she just die for all humanity? But, alas, she can't... she is not God, who can re-create us, forgive our sins, represent us.


      Logical to only Joe's way of thinking.
      Mary is simply a human being who is a sinner and needs a Savior to save her as well.
      resolve this syllogism for me.

      Jesus Christ is God.
      Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ
      Mary is the mother of who? Jesus Christ? And, Jesus Christ is who? God? Simply then, Mary is mother of God.


      Let's do it backwards, we should come up with the same logical response

      Mary IS mother of God
      Mary is mother of Jesus Christ
      Jesus Christ IS God. . . This is the Catholic faith, front and back, coming and going!


      Let's do another

      Mary is NOT mother of God.
      Mary is mother of Jesus Christ.

      Jesus is what? Son of Mary? In this syllogism Mary is NOT mother of God, hence Jesus is not God! What have you done! This is what you want to say, Jesus is NOT GOD?

      Your faith, on the other hand, needs a little work, come to a faith workout at any Catholic Church, you'll be more than welcomed to build in the virtues of faith, hope, and charity!.

      JoeT
      Sigillum Militum Χρisti
      "Truth exists. The Incarnation happened."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JoeT View Post

        resolve this syllogism for me.

        Jesus Christ is God.
        Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ
        Mary is the mother of who? Jesus Christ? And, Jesus Christ is who? God? Simply then, Mary is mother of God.


        Let's do it backwards, we should come up with the same logical response

        Mary IS mother of God
        Mary is mother of Jesus Christ
        Jesus Christ IS God. . . This is the Catholic faith, front and back, coming and going!


        Let's do another

        Mary is NOT mother of God.
        Mary is mother of Jesus Christ.

        Jesus is what? Son of Mary? In this syllogism Mary is NOT mother of God, hence Jesus is not God! What have you done! This is what you want to say, Jesus is NOT GOD?

        Your faith, on the other hand, needs a little work, come to a faith workout at any Catholic Church, you'll be more than welcomed to build in the virtues of faith, hope, and charity!.

        JoeT
        So you believe mary crafted God in her womb. God, according to you had a beginning. Hence mary is the mother of God the Father, Spirit and Son. Got it. Flawed theology, flawed logic. Where is that gonna get you?
        Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JoeT View Post

          Mary IS mother of God
          Mary is mother of Jesus Christ
          Jesus Christ IS God. . . This is the Catholic faith, front and back, coming and going!
          JoeT
          Of course its catholic. But its not biblical. And that is what matters.
          Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

            Of course its catholic. But its not biblical. And that is what matters.
            I get it now, you don't believe Jesus Christ is God.

            You see, as I once said, if you deny Mary mother of God then you will be denying Christ is God.

            JoeT
            Last edited by JoeT; 02-02-17, 07:22 PM.
            Sigillum Militum Χρisti
            "Truth exists. The Incarnation happened."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JoeT View Post

              resolve this syllogism for me.

              Jesus Christ is God.
              Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ
              Mary is the mother of who? Jesus Christ? And, Jesus Christ is who? God? Simply then, Mary is mother of God.

              Mary is your mother and that is why you act like God.
              A PURE MIND RECALLS ONLY THE WORD
              by FOUNDATIONAL O.T. PROPHETS
              and the APOSTLES
              (Eph 2:20, 2 Pet 3:1-2),


              Impure minds which are intoxicated on tares:
              Mark, Luke (Acts), Hebrews, James and Jude
              will be judged by this word of God in the harvest
              to be condemned for all eternity.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

                So you believe mary crafted God in her womb. God, according to you had a beginning. Hence mary is the mother of God the Father, Spirit and Son. Got it. Flawed theology, flawed logic. Where is that gonna get you?
                Did I use the word "crafted"? Did I suggest that Mary "created God"? Where was that flaw mentioned by me? I'm afraid the bad logic is yours.

                JoeT
                Sigillum Militum Χρisti
                "Truth exists. The Incarnation happened."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JoeT View Post

                  resolve this syllogism for me.

                  Jesus Christ is God.
                  Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ
                  Mary is the mother of who? Jesus Christ? And, Jesus Christ is who? God? Simply then, Mary is mother of God.


                  JoeT
                  Mary is your mother and that is why you act like God.
                  A PURE MIND RECALLS ONLY THE WORD
                  by FOUNDATIONAL O.T. PROPHETS
                  and the APOSTLES
                  (Eph 2:20, 2 Pet 3:1-2),


                  Impure minds which are intoxicated on tares:
                  Mark, Luke (Acts), Hebrews, James and Jude
                  will be judged by this word of God in the harvest
                  to be condemned for all eternity.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JoeT View Post

                    Did I use the word "crafted"? Did I suggest that Mary "created God"? Where was that flaw mentioned by me? I'm afraid the bad logic is yours.

                    JoeT
                    So mary crafted God. She is your god right?
                    Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JoeT View Post

                      I get it now, you don't believe Jesus Christ is God.

                      You see, as I once said, if you deny Mary mother of God then you will be denying Christ is God.

                      JoeT
                      Jesus is God mary isn't. Jesus is our savior and redeemer, mary isn't. You worship the wrong god.
                      Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

                        Jesus is God mary isn't. Jesus is our savior and redeemer, mary isn't. You worship the wrong god.
                        Mary's humanity has never been questioned. Nevertheless, it is only 'through' Mary that one approaches the reality of Jesus Christ's union of divinity with humanity.

                        JoeT
                        Sigillum Militum Χρisti
                        "Truth exists. The Incarnation happened."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post
                          So mary crafted God. She is your god right?
                          If you would bother to respond to my question you know. You have to try to turn the question because you already know the answer. Did I use the word "crafted"? Did I suggest that Mary "created God"?

                          JoeT
                          Sigillum Militum Χρisti
                          "Truth exists. The Incarnation happened."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JoeT View Post

                            Mary's humanity has never been questioned. Nevertheless, it is only 'through' Mary that one approaches the reality of Jesus Christ's union of divinity with humanity.

                            JoeT
                            Through decomposed Mary you approach the reality of a man-made wafer?
                            A PURE MIND RECALLS ONLY THE WORD
                            by FOUNDATIONAL O.T. PROPHETS
                            and the APOSTLES
                            (Eph 2:20, 2 Pet 3:1-2),


                            Impure minds which are intoxicated on tares:
                            Mark, Luke (Acts), Hebrews, James and Jude
                            will be judged by this word of God in the harvest
                            to be condemned for all eternity.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JoeT View Post

                              Mary's humanity has never been questioned. Nevertheless, it is only 'through' Mary that one approaches the reality of Jesus Christ's union of divinity with humanity.

                              JoeT
                              You've elevated her to godhood, you said so yourself. Worship your goddess.
                              Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JoeT View Post

                                If you would bother to respond to my question you know. You have to try to turn the question because you already know the answer. Did I use the word "crafted"? Did I suggest that Mary "created God"?

                                JoeT
                                You claim mary is the 'mother of god', therefore she gave birth to god. You said so yourself. Now worship your mother. Its your flawed theology not mine. Enjoy it while it lasts.
                                Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

                                Comment

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