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All doesn't mean all when it comes to Mary.

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  • Originally posted by kmerian View Post

    Even Jesus?

    And BTW only a few bibles use everyone in that verse of Galatians.

    The Greek does not.
    So Mary was immaculate, but not righteous by faith.

    That is a problem.


    Comment


    • Originally posted by kmerian View Post

      Yes, that agrees with me, it is a generalization.
      Right. So all really means all.... Jews and gentiles (that would be everyone!) All fall short of the glory of God... all are under the curse of sin.


      Now what? Show me the exception.

      And please do us all a favor and don't show stupidity by saying, Jesus.

      God in His word says He is sinless

      God in His word tells us that He is God

      God in His word tells us that all fall short of the Glory of God. God cannot fall short of Himself.

      So He IS exempt..... not the exception.


      So where can we find these fantom exceptions?

      The truth is we can't because there is not one good.

      You can continue to lie to yourself Ken to maintain your "Catholicity". I am praying that the Holy Spirit convicts you have maintaining a lie for comfort.

      You know you have nothing.
      Don’t answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by kmerian View Post

        Even Jesus?

        And BTW only a few bibles use everyone in that verse of Galatians.

        The Greek does not.
        Right... the Greek uses all which is EVERYONE>
        πᾶς
        Transliteration
        pas
        Pronunciation
        p's (Key)
        Part of Speech
        adjective
        Root Word (Etymology)
        Including all the forms of declension
        1. individually
          1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
        2. collectively
          1. some of all types
        Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
        πᾶς ps, pas; including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole:—all (manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one), daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no(-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
        And please stop with throwing Jesus under the bus. It makes you look like you don't understand that Jesus is God and cannot fall from His own Glory.... makes you look like you don't understand federal headship...... makes you look like you have never read the scriptures that tell us that Jesus is sinless therefore not just the exception but EXEMPT by His own authority of being God.
        Don’t answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by bessyboo View Post

          Right. So all really means all.... Jews and gentiles (that would be everyone!) All fall short of the glory of God... all are under the curse of sin.
          Context is everything. Who is Paul referring to, to whom is he writing, how is he writing, what is his intent?

          Now what? Show me the exception.

          And please do us all a favor and don't show stupidity by saying, Jesus.

          God in His word says He is sinless

          God in His word tells us that He is God

          God in His word tells us that all fall short of the Glory of God. God cannot fall short of Himself.

          So He IS exempt..... not the exception.
          So all does not mean a literal all, but a general all.

          You make my point.


          So where can we find these fantom exceptions?

          The truth is we can't because there is not one good.

          You can continue to lie to yourself Ken to maintain your "Catholicity". I am praying that the Holy Spirit convicts you have maintaining a lie for comfort.

          You know you have nothing.
          The simple fact is most christians don't follow your use of the word "all"

          What sin has an unborn child, or an infant committed?

          What about a mentally ill or mentally challenged person?

          Most Christians will tell you that there are all kinds of exceptions, because they recognize "all" as being used here in a way we use it every day.

          This crucifix is for us a book with hieroglyphics of might and power, to enable us to read in a second, at one glance, what it otherwise would take us five minutes to read in the Bible. We have often instructed poor slaves who cannot read. We have told them what Jesus has done for them, arid shown them the crucifix, and thus appealed to their eyes and ears in far less time than by any other method." ~ Rt. Rev. John Timon, Prefect to the Republic of Texas

          Comment


          • Originally posted by bessyboo View Post

            Right... the Greek uses all which is EVERYONE>
            πᾶς
            Transliteration
            pas
            Pronunciation
            p's (Key)
            Part of Speech
            adjective
            Root Word (Etymology)
            Including all the forms of declension
            1. individually
              1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
            2. collectively
              1. some of all types
            Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
            πᾶς ps, pas; including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole:—all (manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one), daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no(-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
            And please stop with throwing Jesus under the bus. It makes you look like you don't understand that Jesus is God and cannot fall from His own Glory.... makes you look like you don't understand federal headship...... makes you look like you have never read the scriptures that tell us that Jesus is sinless therefore not just the exception but EXEMPT by His own authority of being God.
            I am not throwing Jesus under the bus..I am just pointing out the inherent contradiction in your position. Jesus is fully God, but he is also fully man.

            Your position is the ancient heresy of Monophysitism which held that Jesus was only God. Jesus was also a man. And as such would have to be included in your use of "all" or "everyone". UNLESS, you recognize them as the generalizations that they are, and not a statement of specifics.
            This crucifix is for us a book with hieroglyphics of might and power, to enable us to read in a second, at one glance, what it otherwise would take us five minutes to read in the Bible. We have often instructed poor slaves who cannot read. We have told them what Jesus has done for them, arid shown them the crucifix, and thus appealed to their eyes and ears in far less time than by any other method." ~ Rt. Rev. John Timon, Prefect to the Republic of Texas

            Comment


            • Originally posted by kmerian View Post

              Context is everything. Who is Paul referring to, to whom is he writing, how is he writing, what is his intent?



              So all does not mean a literal all, but a general all.

              You make my point.




              The simple fact is most christians don't follow your use of the word "all"

              What sin has an unborn child, or an infant committed?

              What about a mentally ill or mentally challenged person?

              Most Christians will tell you that there are all kinds of exceptions, because they recognize "all" as being used here in a way we use it every day.
              We do. we believe God.... all means all.... there are no qualifiers. There are not exceptions. I see that you don't know anything about federal headship. So of course you think that Jesus would be part of the all because He is also man. That is what happens when you lack knowledge.

              God is a God of justice and mercy. I trust him to be completely just and completely merciful to those that deserve either.

              I do not believe that God is going to hold a sinner accountable that does not have cognitive facilities to understand right from wrong.

              I may be wrong about that, but I know that God is merciful.



              There is no one good, no, not one.

              All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.

              No qualifiers, no exceptions.


              Sin is passed from the father.

              God does not sin.

              God is Jesus' Father.

              Therefore Jesus is exempt

              Jesus is God,

              Therefore Jesus cannot fall short of His own Glory.

              You have nothing Ken
              Don’t answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by kmerian View Post

                I am not throwing Jesus under the bus..I am just pointing out the inherent contradiction in your position. Jesus is fully God, but he is also fully man.

                Your position is the ancient heresy of Monophysitism which held that Jesus was only God. Jesus was also a man. And as such would have to be included in your use of "all" or "everyone". UNLESS, you recognize them as the generalizations that they are, and not a statement of specifics.
                Wrong. This has been explained to you.

                You rail against God, against His word, against the Greek, against comprehension .

                Study Federal Headship. It may help you with Jesus being exempt.
                Don’t answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by kmerian View Post

                  He said every Jew and Greek.

                  Not "non-Jew"

                  Now, either he was using "Jew" and "Greek" as generaliziations, or he was not.

                  Logic dictates that he was.

                  The need to prove the RCC wrong dictates that you interpret it as being specific about one and General about the other.

                  But Jesus was a Jew as well.

                  So again you run up against the unspoken exception.

                  Meaning both these words are used as generalizations not as statements of specifics.
                  The clear reading of Scripture says, all men sinned in Adam, and they continue to sin because they are sinners.

                  If you want to believe Mary is sinless, it's no skin off my nose. However, you can't prove it from Scripture.

                  Nevertheless, please list for me, from scripture, those humans said by scripture to be sinless.
                  If he had meant to cast you away he would have done so long ago. If he wanted reasons for rejecting you he had reasons from all eternity, for he knew what you would be. No sin in you has been a surprise to him. C.H. Spurgeon

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by kmerian View Post

                    Even Jesus?
                    You don't know whether or not Jesus is sinless? That's part of your problem.

                    Originally posted by kmerian
                    And BTW only a few bibles use everyone in that verse of Galatians.

                    The Greek does not.
                    It does, but I'm not going to argue it with you.

                    Give me the names of those identified by Scripture as sinless, please...
                    If he had meant to cast you away he would have done so long ago. If he wanted reasons for rejecting you he had reasons from all eternity, for he knew what you would be. No sin in you has been a surprise to him. C.H. Spurgeon

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by bessyboo View Post

                      We do. we believe God.... all means all.... there are no qualifiers. There are not exceptions. I see that you don't know anything about federal headship. So of course you think that Jesus would be part of the all because He is also man. That is what happens when you lack knowledge.
                      I do know that federal headship is a theory in reformed theology that is nowhere explicitly taught in the Bible.
                      God is a God of justice and mercy. I trust him to be completely just and completely merciful to those that deserve either.
                      Of course, this goes without saying.

                      I do not believe that God is going to hold a sinner accountable that does not have cognitive facilities to understand right from wrong.
                      That does not answer my question though, what sin has an unborn child or infant committed?
                      I may be wrong about that, but I know that God is merciful.
                      Yes he is.
                      There is no one good, no, not one.

                      A reference to several Psalms talking about the general sinfullness of the world, not a condemnation of every single person who ever lived.
                      All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.

                      No qualifiers, no exceptions.
                      Except that read in context it is clearly a general and not a specific statement.


                      Sin is passed from the father.
                      No biblical basis for this.

                      God does not sin.
                      Of course he is.

                      God is Jesus' Father.
                      Yes

                      Therefore Jesus is exempt
                      No, because your logic fails on its initial premise, There is no biblical basis for sin being passed only from the father.
                      Jesus is God,
                      Jesus is also a man

                      Therefore Jesus cannot fall short of His own Glory.

                      You have nothing Ken
                      Is Jesus a man? or is he only God?
                      This crucifix is for us a book with hieroglyphics of might and power, to enable us to read in a second, at one glance, what it otherwise would take us five minutes to read in the Bible. We have often instructed poor slaves who cannot read. We have told them what Jesus has done for them, arid shown them the crucifix, and thus appealed to their eyes and ears in far less time than by any other method." ~ Rt. Rev. John Timon, Prefect to the Republic of Texas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by bessyboo View Post

                        Wrong. This has been explained to you.

                        You rail against God, against His word, against the Greek, against comprehension .

                        Study Federal Headship. It may help you with Jesus being exempt.
                        I have studied it. And I find it lacking in logic.

                        And I have not railed against God or his word at all, so just stop with that accusation.
                        This crucifix is for us a book with hieroglyphics of might and power, to enable us to read in a second, at one glance, what it otherwise would take us five minutes to read in the Bible. We have often instructed poor slaves who cannot read. We have told them what Jesus has done for them, arid shown them the crucifix, and thus appealed to their eyes and ears in far less time than by any other method." ~ Rt. Rev. John Timon, Prefect to the Republic of Texas

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by kmerian View Post

                          I have studied it. And I find it lacking in logic.

                          And I have not railed against God or his word at all, so just stop with that accusation.
                          God trumps you.

                          12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned
                          Don’t answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by bessyboo View Post

                            God trumps you.

                            12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
                            God does trump me.

                            However your interpretation of this verse does not.

                            Yes, sin entered the world because of Adam, that does not in any way support the idea that sin is passed only from Fathers to children, or any of the other federal headship beliefs.
                            This crucifix is for us a book with hieroglyphics of might and power, to enable us to read in a second, at one glance, what it otherwise would take us five minutes to read in the Bible. We have often instructed poor slaves who cannot read. We have told them what Jesus has done for them, arid shown them the crucifix, and thus appealed to their eyes and ears in far less time than by any other method." ~ Rt. Rev. John Timon, Prefect to the Republic of Texas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by kmerian View Post

                              I am not throwing Jesus under the bus..I am just pointing out the inherent contradiction in your position. Jesus is fully God, but he is also fully man.

                              Your position is the ancient heresy of Monophysitism which held that Jesus was only God. Jesus was also a man. And as such would have to be included in your use of "all" or "everyone". UNLESS, you recognize them as the generalizations that they are, and not a statement of specifics.
                              or unless, like catholics, you don't believe God's word is the truth. Christians do believe it's the truth.





                              "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                              The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by kmerian View Post

                                God does trump me.

                                However your interpretation of this verse does not.

                                Yes, sin entered the world because of Adam, that does not in any way support the idea that sin is passed only from Fathers to children, or any of the other federal headship beliefs.
                                thx for confirming you don't believe God's word is truth.


                                "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                                The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                                Comment

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