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The truth about Protestant and Christian differences IMHO

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  • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

    you do have an earthly leader in your church/group, correct?
    If you would spend a fraction of your time to search for Jesus instead of asking these inane questions over and over again......



    "Cults use Christian terminology, but redefine terms to suit their own belief and practices."-Dr. Walter Martin

    Catholicism's doctrines of demons:

    1TI 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
    1TI 4:3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Doug View Post

      The Catholic god surely is inept. For the Catholic god is so impotent that in order to keep the Catholic jesus free from sin he has to lie and make mary is free from sin.
      How Mary was immaculately conceived
      by her two sinful parents is another Catholic absurdity.
      Only the Father's revelation
      to the apostles binds and loosens
      (Mat 16:17-19)


      Did I not choose you, the twelve (John 6:70).

      He who receives THE TWELVE receives Me (Mat 10:40).


      RECEIVE MORE THAN THE FATHER’S REVELATION TO THE TWELVE
      AND YOU ARE NOT RECEIVING CHRIST, BUT ARE DISLOYAL LIKE ADAM

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Doug View Post

        The Catholic god surely is inept. For the Catholic god is so impotent that in order to keep the Catholic jesus free from sin he has to lie and make mary is free from sin.
        why don't you give us your interpretation to refute the catholic interpretion instead of ad hominem remarks?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

          why don't you give us your interpretation to refute the catholic interpretion instead of ad hominem remarks?
          The lining of her mother's uterus kept Mary free from sin.

          What else could it have been?
          Only the Father's revelation
          to the apostles binds and loosens
          (Mat 16:17-19)


          Did I not choose you, the twelve (John 6:70).

          He who receives THE TWELVE receives Me (Mat 10:40).


          RECEIVE MORE THAN THE FATHER’S REVELATION TO THE TWELVE
          AND YOU ARE NOT RECEIVING CHRIST, BUT ARE DISLOYAL LIKE ADAM

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

            How Mary was immaculately conceived
            by her two sinful parents is another Catholic absurdity.
            St. John Damascene (Or. i Nativ. Deip., n. 2) esteems the supernatural influence of God at the generation of Mary to be so comprehensive that he extends it also to her parents. He says of them that, during the generation, they were filled and purified by the Holy Ghost, and freed from sexual concupiscence. Consequently according to the Damascene, even the human element of her origin, the material of which she was formed, was pure and holy. This opinion of an immaculate active generation and the sanctity of the "conceptio carnis" was taken up by some Western authors; it was put forward by Petrus Comestor in his treatise against St. Bernard and by others. Some writers even taught that Mary was born of a virgin and that she was conceived in a miraculous manner when Joachim and Anne met at the golden gate of the temple (Trombelli, "Mari SS. Vita", Sect. V, ii, 8; Summa aurea, II, 948. Cf. also the "Revelations" of Catherine Emmerich which contain the entire apocryphal legend of the miraculous conception of Mary......from cathen

            Comment


            • How Mary was immaculately conceived
              by her two sinful parents is another Catholic absurdity.
              Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

              St. John Damascene (Or. i Nativ. Deip., n. 2) esteems the supernatural influence of God at the generation of Mary to be so comprehensive that he extends it also to her parents. He says of them that, during the generation, they were filled and purified by the Holy Ghost, and freed from sexual concupiscence. Consequently according to the Damascene, even the human element of her origin, the material of which she was formed, was pure and holy. This opinion of an immaculate active generation and the sanctity of the "conceptio carnis" was taken up by some Western authors; it was put forward by Petrus Comestor in his treatise against St. Bernard and by others. Some writers even taught that Mary was born of a virgin and that she was conceived in a miraculous manner when Joachim and Anne met at the golden gate of the temple (Trombelli, "Mari SS. Vita", Sect. V, ii, 8; Summa aurea, II, 948. Cf. also the "Revelations" of Catherine Emmerich which contain the entire apocryphal legend of the miraculous conception of Mary......from cathen
              That is the ABSURD opinion of John Damascene.

              No prophecy of scripture supports this babble.


              Surely the Lord GOD does nothing,
              Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets
              (Am 3:7).
              Only the Father's revelation
              to the apostles binds and loosens
              (Mat 16:17-19)


              Did I not choose you, the twelve (John 6:70).

              He who receives THE TWELVE receives Me (Mat 10:40).


              RECEIVE MORE THAN THE FATHER’S REVELATION TO THE TWELVE
              AND YOU ARE NOT RECEIVING CHRIST, BUT ARE DISLOYAL LIKE ADAM

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Doug View Post

                If you would spend a fraction of your time to search for Jesus instead of asking these inane questions over and over again......
                that's not what catholics are looking for...




                "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                Comment


                • ramcam2 said:
                  congratulations! you are the first non-cath who said the church is visible.
                  according to the bible (NT), the pillars are the apostles (gal2:9) and the church (1tim3:15).
                  I have heard others say the church is visible. Maybe you were not listening. The church is God's people, and people are very visible. The church is not a building, and worship/ service can be held anywhere.
                  Next, I asked you where Christ mentioned any pillars? You did not show me.

                  are you a christian but do not believe in easter (resurrection) and christmas (birth of jesus christ)? nobody says these are the actual dates but we take the word of the church in the celebration of these two great christian feasts at these times of the year. this is church tradition and not contradictory to the bible.
                  I told you, I believe in the Pashal weekend, and remember Christ's death, burial, and resurrection... not just the resurrection. I do not rush out on Sunday morning to watch the sun come up, because that is nothing more than Sun worship. I worship the Son
                  For Christmas, i know the date is incorrect for Christ's birth, as it is more likely in the fall, when the shepherds were tending their sheep in the fields. But i also know it has a pagan allusion also. Last, I do not take the word of any church, unless it aligns with scripture. Show me in the scriptures, were we honor Sunday as the resurrection day? Not the RCC's view... but in Scripture. All i see in scripture, to honor the death, burial, and resurrection is baptism.

                  with regards athanasius..... i could not find what you posted. could you give your source and link....thanks.
                  Athanasius, 39th Festive Letter.

                  i am much, much older than you.
                  Perhaps why, what others write, are so easily dismissed?

                  the churches in jerusalem, antioch, rome, etc were all called christian churches at that time. the name "catholic church' to mean the one true church came later in the fourth century.
                  Either it is Ignatius (110AD) calling the church, the "catholic church", or later in the 4th century. Which is it?

                  (I have tried to make this short to keep the attention span. I know i can be long winded.)

                  Comment


                  • ramcam2 said:
                    where is the logic in that? ok, granting you are correct. why 'rock' which is a strange name? it was to identify peter's new status and that is the rock on which jesus would build his church. Ans then jesus mentions the 'keys' that he will give. can you give this to a 'confession of faith' or to a 'person'?
                    Are you saying that your belief is simply built on logic? We have logic too. You want logic though. Peter acknowledged that Jesus was not only the Christ, but the Son of the living God. Then Jesus blesses Peter,the son of John, because the Father is heaven revealed it to him, as flesh and blood did not. Jesus then replies to Peter by acknowledging him as well. This brings to mind what Jesus has stated earlier in (Mt. 10:32; Lk. 12:8) "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven". This acknowledgment of who Christ is, the Son of God, is what the church is built upon. He is the good news that has come to mankind. Jesus proceeds after this acknowledgement, with the summary..."and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell (death) shall not prevail against it.
                    Yes Jesus mentions keys that He "will" give. (future tense) Tell us ram, where does Scripture show Jesus giving the keys to Peter? What does Jesus say the keys are? A confession of faith can be the key to opening many things of God.


                    the bible says otherwise. it is the church, the pillar and ground of truth. why go against what the written word says?
                    Because I'm not! But you seem to be.
                    "... in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of "THE" truth". (ITim.3:15)
                    It makes a difference if you leave out this one simple word. Otherwise, it can be mistakenly interpreted that the church of God is the truth, as in whatever she says, must be the truth. But if this one little word is added to the text, it changes everything! It would mean that the church upholds a preexisting truth. She simply supports and upholds these preexisting truths that she has been made aware of.

                    are you implying, after the ascension, the church is leaderless?
                    do you have a leader/pastor in your church/group?
                    No, i implied no such thing. I believe the church has leaders, qualified to teach and preach (with the Holy Spirit).
                    But, there is only one Head, Christ! And all the others (including leaders of churches) are simply the body. Show us two Heads in Scripture?

                    (Again, trying to make things short.)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by William C. View Post
                      Are you saying that your belief is simply built on logic? We have logic too. You want logic though. Peter acknowledged that Jesus was not only the Christ, but the Son of the living God. Then Jesus blesses Peter,the son of John, because the Father is heaven revealed it to him, as flesh and blood did not. Jesus then replies to Peter by acknowledging him as well. This brings to mind what Jesus has stated earlier in (Mt. 10:32; Lk. 12:8) "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven". This acknowledgment of who Christ is, the Son of God, is what the church is built upon. He is the good news that has come to mankind. Jesus proceeds after this acknowledgement, with the summary..."and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell (death) shall not prevail against it.

                      Let us not forget that Jesus changed Peter's name to "Rock" , fulfilling that prophecy He made earlier in John 1:42.

                      40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Jesus[k] was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He first found his own brother Simon and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which means Christ). 42 He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon the son of John. You shall be called Cephas (which means Peter).

                      So Jesus, in Matthew 16, would have said to Peter, "You are Cephas and on this cephas I will build my church. Jesus identified the Rock and the rock is Peter.

                      Why didn't the apostles all get new names? Why only Peter?

                      Ephesians says that the Church is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets 1Peter 2 says that the Church is made of living stones - people, not statements

                      Yes Jesus mentions keys that He "will" give. (future tense) Tell us ram, where does Scripture show Jesus giving the keys to Peter? What does Jesus say the keys are? A confession of faith can be the key to opening many things of God.
                      Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

                      The keys are associated, by Jesus, with binding and loosing, which demonstrate authority.



                      Because I'm not! But you seem to be.
                      "... in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of "THE" truth". (ITim.3:15)
                      It makes a difference if you leave out this one simple word. Otherwise, it can be mistakenly interpreted that the church of God is the truth, as in whatever she says, must be the truth. But if this one little word is added to the text, it changes everything! It would mean that the church upholds a preexisting truth. She simply supports and upholds these preexisting truths that she has been made aware of.
                      Are you sure? Let's test this statement.


                      John 17:17Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.


                      Ok. Now let's switch the underlined terms.


                      Sanctify them in truth; your word is the truth.


                      William, please explain any change in meaning to John 17:17 after we switched "the truth" and "truth".

                      ?


                      No, i implied no such thing. I believe the church has leaders, qualified to teach and preach (with the Holy Spirit).
                      But, there is only one Head, Christ! And all the others (including leaders of churches) are simply the body. Show us two Heads in Scripture?

                      (Again, trying to make things short.)
                      Leaders are heads, right? Who are the heads of the leaders? IOW, who qualifies the leaders to teach and preach? Because whoever qualifies the leaders to preach and teach have to hold them accountable so they do not preach and teach error, right? So who holds the leaders accountable (and don't say the people, because they are not qualified to do so ).



                      Blessings
                      May the most holy, most sacred, most adorable, most incomprehensible and ineffable Name of God be forever praised, blessed, loved, adored and glorified in Heaven, on Earth, and under the Earth by all the creatures of God and by the Sacred Heart of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar. Amen.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Philomena View Post


                        Let us not forget that Jesus changed Peter's name to "Rock" , fulfilling that prophecy He made earlier in John 1:42.

                        40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Jesus[k] was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He first found his own brother Simon and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which means Christ). 42 He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon the son of John. You shall be called Cephas (which means Peter).

                        So Jesus, in Matthew 16, would have said to Peter, "You are Cephas and on this cephas I will build my church. Jesus identified the Rock and the rock is Peter.

                        Why didn't the apostles all get new names? Why only Peter?

                        Ephesians says that the Church is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets 1Peter 2 says that the Church is made of living stones - people, not statements



                        Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

                        The keys are associated, by Jesus, with binding and loosing, which demonstrate authority.





                        Are you sure? Let's test this statement.


                        John 17:17Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.


                        Ok. Now let's switch the underlined terms.


                        Sanctify them in truth; your word is the truth.


                        William, please explain any change in meaning to John 17:17 after we switched "the truth" and "truth".

                        ?




                        Leaders are heads, right? Who are the heads of the leaders? IOW, who qualifies the leaders to teach and preach? Because whoever qualifies the leaders to preach and teach have to hold them accountable so they do not preach and teach error, right? So who holds the leaders accountable (and don't say the people, because they are not qualified to do so ).



                        Blessings
                        Where did Jesus say 'upon you, Peter, I will build my church'?
                        “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ” – Colossians 2:8

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by nan View Post

                          Where did Jesus say 'upon you, Peter, I will build my church'?
                          Where did Jesus say "Upon your correct answer I will build my Church"?
                          May the most holy, most sacred, most adorable, most incomprehensible and ineffable Name of God be forever praised, blessed, loved, adored and glorified in Heaven, on Earth, and under the Earth by all the creatures of God and by the Sacred Heart of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar. Amen.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Philomena View Post

                            Where did Jesus say "Upon your correct answer I will build my Church"?
                            Please answer my question, Philomena.
                            “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ” – Colossians 2:8

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                              why don't you give us your interpretation to refute the catholic interpretion instead of ad hominem remarks?
                              I do not need to offer my interpretation.

                              God's Word stands on its own in refuting Mary being sinless. (Rom 3:23, Luke 2:22 among others)

                              "Cults use Christian terminology, but redefine terms to suit their own belief and practices."-Dr. Walter Martin

                              Catholicism's doctrines of demons:

                              1TI 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
                              1TI 4:3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by nan View Post

                                Where did Jesus say 'upon you, Peter, I will build my church'?
                                ... bump for Philomena
                                “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ” – Colossians 2:8

                                Comment

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