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To Be Saved -- Catholic Style

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  • Originally posted by illini1959 View Post

    We are the church!

    I'd really, seriously, like to know why it is so hard for rccs to understand the meaning of the word "church". I've posted it so many times, as have many others.

    Church = Body of believers. We can't reject ourselves.

    Rejecting Christ, just Christ alone, is what the Bible is very clear about being the one thing preventing anyone from having a relationship with God.
    The Church has a hierarchy of leadership and is unified on teachings and dates back to the Apostles. This is the Catholic Church.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

      The Church has a hierarchy of leadership and is unified on teachings and dates back to the Apostles. This is the Catholic Church.
      Look up the word "church" as it relates to the body of Christ.

      2 Corinthians 5:7 ~ for we walk by faith, not by sight

      Romans 10:9 ~ that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Detroiter View Post

        Oh my. Now, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" is now getting improved to read "He who believes only will be saved". Where is that warning we Catholics are always being given about not adding to or subtracting from God's Word?

        This is a conjunctive statement: both elements, faith and baptism, are required, else the Lord would not have said so. And you're a bit off to say "faith is the salvation issue in the passage," because what is required for salvation is the issue in the passage, and its two requirements that the Lord is commanding the eleven to adhere to: belief and baptism. If you want to identify the "salvation" issue, then deal with both things the Lord said: belief and baptism.

        Your argument that "not being baptized is not punishable" completely misses the point, because the Lord isn't sending the eleven out to punish or condemn anyone, but to preach the gospel, and to baptize everyone who believes so that they will be saved.

        Nor have I nor any other Catholic on this board ever said that Baptism is sufficient without faith, so I don't know why there's so much time wasted telling us that being baptized without faith doesn't magically save anybody. (Well, I do know a little bit: because it's an easy straw man to knock down when you're confronted with inconvenient scriptural proofs).

        Making a confession of faith beforehand is an integral part of adult Baptism in the Catholic Church. "He who believes and is baptized will be saved."

        This is why none of the prooftexts being thrown at us of people in the NT professing faith before they are baptized surprise or scare us at all. If a person professes no faith in Christ, the Catholic Church won't baptize him. Regardless of the untold millions you all seem to believe are being baptized all the time without any faith, for us it only makes sense that, if one didn't first believe the gospel, then why would he present himself for baptism? Heb 11.6

        Regardless, why an unbeliever getting baptized doesn't change his spiritual predicament is not the Lord's concern in Mk 16. His concern is to teach His disciples what is required of their hearers to be saved. "He who believes and is baptized will be saved".

        Notice the penalty. There's none for not being baptized. Remember, even your church asserts one can be saved without it. Baptism is as effecient in saving one as circumcision wasn't.

        If he had meant to cast you away he would have done so long ago. If he wanted reasons for rejecting you he had reasons from all eternity, for he knew what you would be. No sin in you has been a surprise to him. C.H. Spurgeon

        Comment


        • Originally posted by illini1959 View Post

          Look up the word "church" as it relates to the body of Christ.
          1 Cor 12:27-28. " Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues."

          Notice how the Church, the Body of Christ, has different member, there are administrators, leaders, teachers, etc. First are the apostles, and their successors the Bishops. The Pope is the head of the Bishops (Matt 16:18).

          The Church(s) were visible, unified, and hierarchical. One didn't just decide to go and plant a new church somewhere like Protestants do: "But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? And how can men preach unless they are sent? (Romans 10:14-15)

          You see, there aren't any "rogue Christians" in the Bible. Everyone was SENT by an Apostle or Bishop. That's the way it started and that's the way it continues today two thousand years later.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

            1 Cor 12:27-28. " Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues."

            Notice how the Church, the Body of Christ, has different member, there are administrators, leaders, teachers, etc. First are the apostles, and their successors the Bishops. The Pope is the head of the Bishops (Matt 16:18).

            The Church(s) were visible, unified, and hierarchical. One didn't just decide to go and plant a new church somewhere like Protestants do: "But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? And how can men preach unless they are sent? (Romans 10:14-15)

            You see, there aren't any "rogue Christians" in the Bible. Everyone was SENT by an Apostle or Bishop. That's the way it started and that's the way it continues today two thousand years later.
            Were you saved as a Protestant, or not saved until you converted to Catholicism?

            If he had meant to cast you away he would have done so long ago. If he wanted reasons for rejecting you he had reasons from all eternity, for he knew what you would be. No sin in you has been a surprise to him. C.H. Spurgeon

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

              1 Cor 12:27-28. " Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues."

              Notice how the Church, the Body of Christ, has different member, there are administrators, leaders, teachers, etc. First are the apostles, and their successors the Bishops. The Pope is the head of the Bishops (Matt 16:18).

              The Church(s) were visible, unified, and hierarchical. One didn't just decide to go and plant a new church somewhere like Protestants do: "But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? And how can men preach unless they are sent? (Romans 10:14-15)

              You see, there aren't any "rogue Christians" in the Bible. Everyone was SENT by an Apostle or Bishop. That's the way it started and that's the way it continues today two thousand years later.
              Reading into the text again. Where does either passage talk about successors? We'll start there.
              Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

                1 Cor 12:27-28. " Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues."

                Notice how the Church, the Body of Christ, has different member, there are administrators, leaders, teachers, etc. First are the apostles, and their successors the Bishops. The Pope is the head of the Bishops (Matt 16:18).

                The Church(s) were visible, unified, and hierarchical. One didn't just decide to go and plant a new church somewhere like Protestants do: "But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? And how can men preach unless they are sent? (Romans 10:14-15)

                You see, there aren't any "rogue Christians" in the Bible. Everyone was SENT by an Apostle or Bishop. That's the way it started and that's the way it continues today two thousand years later.
                So missing the point about what the church is.


                Naturally it started that way, who else was around to send them? Two thousand years later we go as we're called by the Holy Spirit.

                Note we are "individual members" in the body of Christ; we each have spiritual gifts to equip us to serve Him.

                1 Corinthians 12:14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
                2 Corinthians 5:7 ~ for we walk by faith, not by sight

                Romans 10:9 ~ that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

                Comment


                • Originally posted by illini1959 View Post

                  So missing the point about what the church is.


                  Naturally it started that way, who else was around to send them? Two thousand years later we go as we're called by the Holy Spirit.

                  Note we are "individual members" in the body of Christ; we each have spiritual gifts to equip us to serve Him.

                  1 Corinthians 12:14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
                  Where does the Bible say that? Did they not have the Holy Spirit in the 1st century?

                  That's right, the body is not one member but many. You have hands, feet, arms, legs, etc. What does that have to do with anything? They are all the body of Christ. Do you have body parts just floating around or is your body a unified whole?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post
                    To preach the Gospel and protect "the faith that was once for all entrusted to God's holy people." (Jude 1:3) This is why you have a Bible today as well as reject Arianism, Nestorianism, Pelagianism, etc. Without a central authority, people tend to wander in all different directions.
                    what is it? do you know?

                    those who are born again, are not without a central authority. We know Who our authority is, it isn't a man made false teacher.

                    yep, we know that - like the RCC, LDS, JWs, etc

                    "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                    The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

                      Where does the Bible say that? Did they not have the Holy Spirit in the 1st century?
                      They did. Do I not have the Holy Spirit today? Or did the giving of the Holy Spirit cease in the first century???????

                      Originally posted by Mark Rome
                      That's right, the body is not one member but many. You have hands, feet, arms, legs, etc. What does that have to do with anything? They are all the body of Christ. Do you have body parts just floating around or is your body a unified whole?
                      Are you really asserting only Roman Catholicism is unified?

                      Shall I laugh directly in your face, or turn away while laughing at your unfounded belief that only Roman Catholicism is unified???
                      If he had meant to cast you away he would have done so long ago. If he wanted reasons for rejecting you he had reasons from all eternity, for he knew what you would be. No sin in you has been a surprise to him. C.H. Spurgeon

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post
                        Ephesians 4:4-6, there is one body, "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all."

                        "Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it." (1 Cor. 12:27)

                        There was and is only one Church, the Body of Christ. That is the Catholic Church.
                        Who teaches about the 'body of Christ', in scripture?

                        there is only 1, but it is not the RCC/CC. That org teaches contrary to His word and promotes idols.


                        Only the Catholic Church goes back to the Apostles. Your church started in the last few centuries.
                        no, the RCC does not. there is no mention of it or its particular teachings in the NT. no catholic has been able to post supporting scripture.

                        no, the church I'm part of, goes back to NT times, it's Christ's church, His body of believers.

                        when one is born again, they are placed within His body of believers, just as those in Acts were.



                        "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                        The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by illini1959 View Post

                          We are the church!

                          I'd really, seriously, like to know why it is so hard for rccs to understand the meaning of the word "church". I've posted it so many times, as have many others.

                          Church = Body of believers. We can't reject ourselves.

                          Rejecting Christ, just Christ alone, is what the Bible is very clear about being the one thing preventing anyone from having a relationship with God
                          They don't want to know the truth about what it means. It's scriptural, and goes against the false belief that the RCC teaches them.

                          They have to hold tight to that false god, over the biblical God.

                          "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                          The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Detroiter View Post

                            Oh my. Now, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" is now getting improved to read "He who believes only will be saved". Where is that warning we Catholics are always being given about not adding to or subtracting from God's Word?

                            ...

                            you just did that, by only posting half of the verse, to support the RCC false teaching.




                            "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                            The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

                              1 Cor 12:27-28. " Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues."

                              Notice how the Church, the Body of Christ, has different member, there are administrators, leaders, teachers, etc. First are the apostles, and their successors the Bishops. The Pope is the head of the Bishops (Matt 16:18).

                              The Church(s) were visible, unified, and hierarchical. One didn't just decide to go and plant a new church somewhere like Protestants do: "But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? And how can men preach unless they are sent? (Romans 10:14-15)

                              You see, there aren't any "rogue Christians" in the Bible. Everyone was SENT by an Apostle or Bishop. That's the way it started and that's the way it continues today two thousand years later.
                              no, that's how the RCC defines it, not Paul.

                              btw, how does Peter address the 'body of Christ'?


                              "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                              The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

                                Reading into the text again. Where does either passage talk about successors? We'll start there.
                                where do they speak of a 'pope'? they don't. it's made up by the RCC.


                                Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post
                                1 Cor 12:27-28. " Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues."

                                Notice how the Church, the Body of Christ, has different member, there are administrators, leaders, teachers, etc. First are the apostles, and their successors the Bishops. The Pope is the head of the Bishops (Matt 16:18).

                                The Church(s) were visible, unified, and hierarchical. One didn't just decide to go and plant a new church somewhere like Protestants do: "But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? And how can men preach unless they are sent? (Romans 10:14-15)

                                You see, there aren't any "rogue Christians" in the Bible. Everyone was SENT by an Apostle or Bishop. That's the way it started and that's the way it continues today two thousand years later.
                                "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                                The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                                Comment

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