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Worship - Catholic Style

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  • Originally posted by mica View Post
    God's word is always right. Don't add to it - or take away from it, by propaganda fed to you by men.

    The assurance I have, is from the Holy Spirit. Continual bible study and teachings from numerous different teachers, keeps me always checking and verifying what I learn and how i read and understand His word. The ultimate verifier, is the Holy Spirit.

    scripture, will verify scripture.
    Where does the Bible say that Scripture verifies Scripture?

    No matter how many lexicons, concordances, books, teachings you explore, you will never be able to have assurance that your beliefs are absolutely true. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. And, many people who disagree with your opinions also claim the Holy Spirit verifies their beliefs to them as well.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by kirby View Post

      This is the result of nominalism. Certain things can only exist in the mind and not in reality.
      pay attention to this. tell it to catholics

      What we remember (the sacrifice of Christ) is made present in reality precisely because Jesus said it would be made present - in reality.
      what we 'remember', is in the mind. We (today) didn't even live it in reality - as much as catholics want to claim it, those of you today were not there when it was 'in reality'. The only reality today, can be in one's heart - when they're born again. That is a reality! Until that happens to you, you can 'only imagine' - and it isn't even close to reality.

      That's what the Eucharist is - the Real Presence of Jesus. This is my body, this is my blood. Not this is a reminder of my body, this is a reminder of my blood. JoeT? Your thoughts?
      The catholic eucharist is not reality (except as a little round man made wafer). It is only a 'representation', of a representation of it. The catholic eucharist is an idol to catholics.

      We are to 'remember' it - relive (as we know from scripture, since we didn't 'live' it at that time) it in our minds and hearts (as a mother does the birth of a child). We can not relive it in reality - any more than a mother can give birth again, to a child who is already born.

      no where does scripture tell us to reenact it or re-sacrifice Him. We can not. That is an impossibility to do.

      "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

      The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

      Comment


      • This is the result of nominalism. Certain things can only exist in the mind and not in reality.
        Originally posted by mica View Post

        pay attention to this. tell it to catholics
        You misunderstand me. Nominalism offers a picture of reality that doesn't match reality.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

          It's not either / or.
          It is indeed an either / or situation. Jesus did not suffer and die for our sins during the Last Supper. He died on the cross. In the garden of Gethsemane He referred to the cup of wrath that He was still to drink (i.e. it had not yet happened). It is also not His blood per se that saves us from our sins, but Him giving His life for our salvation. And His life was sacrificed on the cross.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Johan View Post

            There is one sacrifice for our sins and this sacrifice took place about 2000 years ago. His work of salvation was finished on the cross. What some "Christians" may have understood and believed in this matter is irrelevant.
            The risen Christ becomes present on the altar and offers himself continuously to God as a living sacrifice. So. how can we participate in this one heavenly offering?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post
              The risen Christ becomes present on the altar and offers himself continuously to God as a living sacrifice.
              Says the Bible nowhere. It does not even hint at it. On the contrary:

              For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. (Heb 9:24-26)

              Christ does not repeatedly offer himself to gradually take away sin. He was sacrificed once and for all to do away with sin once and for all. That is the principal difference between Catholicism and the Gospel.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Johan View Post

                Says the Bible nowhere. It does not even hint at it. On the contrary:

                For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. (Heb 9:24-26)

                Christ does not repeatedly offer himself to gradually take away sin. He was sacrificed once and for all to do away with sin once and for all. That is the principal difference between Catholicism and the Gospel.
                Christ's sacrifice isn't repeated again and again. It is continual. Even you would have to admit that when a sinner repents, Christ's sacrifice is made present to cleanse him of his sins.

                Christ sits at the right hand of God continually making intercession for us. How does this happen? He is continually presenting himself to the Father as the slain lamb. (Revelation 5)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

                  Christ's sacrifice isn't repeated again and again. It is continual. Even you would have to admit that when a sinner repents, Christ's sacrifice is made present to cleanse him of his sins.

                  Christ sits at the right hand of God continually making intercession for us. How does this happen? He is continually presenting himself to the Father as the slain lamb. (Revelation 5)
                  In what manner is Christ's sacrifice continual? Is he in the spiritual realm still hanging on the cross? Please explain how the Catholic church teaches this.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post
                    Christ's sacrifice isn't repeated again and again. It is continual.
                    "Continual"? You mean that the sacrifice of Christ is ongoing? This rabbit hole seems to be getting just deeper. How about finished?

                    Even you would have to admit that when a sinner repents, Christ's sacrifice is made present to cleanse him of his sins.
                    I "admit" no such thing, since I believe that the sacrifice of Christ has already cleansed us from all our sins, "having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross" (Col 2:14). In the words of Charles Spurgeon:

                    He did not die to make men salvable—He died to save them. He did not die that their sin might be put away by some effort of their own—He died to put it away.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Johan View Post

                      "Continual"? You mean that the sacrifice of Christ is ongoing? This rabbit hole seems to be getting just deeper. How about finished?



                      I "admit" no such thing, since I believe that the sacrifice of Christ has already cleansed us from all our sins, "having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross" (Col 2:14). In the words of Charles Spurgeon:

                      He did not die to make men salvable—He died to save them. He did not die that their sin might be put away by some effort of their own—He died to put it away.
                      Great quote. Thanks for sharing it.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Johan View Post

                        "Continual"? You mean that the sacrifice of Christ is ongoing? This rabbit hole seems to be getting just deeper. How about finished?



                        I "admit" no such thing, since I believe that the sacrifice of Christ has already cleansed us from all our sins, "having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross" (Col 2:14). In the words of Charles Spurgeon:

                        He did not die to make men salvable—He died to save them. He did not die that their sin might be put away by some effort of their own—He died to put it away.
                        He cleanses you because it is an eternal sacrifice. Romans 8:34, Christ "who also is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us." Intercedes for us. This is continual. How can he do that? Because he continually offers up his sacrifice. Remember, Christ is outside of time. His sacrifice is ever present. He is seen as the slain lamb in Revelation 5: "And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

                          An individual interpretation isn't
                          then why do you accept that of a false teacher like the RCC?

                          the Bereans, timothy etc (normal people) in the NT could understand scripture.

                          Those who are born again, have the guidance of the Holy Spirit.


                          "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                          The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post
                            Where does the Bible say that Scripture verifies Scripture?

                            No matter how many lexicons, concordances, books, teachings you explore, you will never be able to have assurance that your beliefs are absolutely true. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. And, many people who disagree with your opinions also claim the Holy Spirit verifies their beliefs to them as well.
                            yes, and many people claim to be a believer and have the Holy Spirit, thru water baptism, which isn't what scripture says. Nor has that water baptism, changed their lives (their hearts).

                            the 4 teach of a baptism to come in the future, not of water -

                            Matt 3.11

                            I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost,
                            and with fire:

                            Mark 1.8

                            I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

                            Luke 3.16

                            John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

                            John 1.33

                            And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.



                            "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                            The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by kirby View Post
                              You misunderstand me. Nominalism offers a picture of reality that doesn't match reality.
                              and catholics have a 'picture', but it isn't reality.

                              "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                              The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post
                                Christ's sacrifice isn't repeated again and again. It is continual. Even you would have to admit that when a sinner repents, Christ's sacrifice is made present to cleanse him of his sins.

                                Christ sits at the right hand of God continually making intercession for us. How does this happen? He is continually presenting himself to the Father as the slain lamb. (Revelation 5)
                                the sacrifice itself, is not continual. It says 'was slain'. It was over and done - once only.

                                that is not a 'continual sacrifice'. the sacrifice is done and over.

                                It seems that you are holding tight, to this fake continuation of a sacrifice, to support the false teachings of the RCC.

                                Who is it (or what) that catholics actually do follow?


                                "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                                The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                                Comment

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