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Professors, Students and Alumni of Southern Evangelical Seminary come to Catholicism

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  • Originally posted by Atemi View Post


    But I was never talking about the secluded African native far, far away. I was talking about the atheist and Christ rejecting Jew down the block....who your church tells they need not have faith in Jesus Christ to be saved.


    36. From the Christian confession that there can be only one path to salvation, however, it does not in any way follow that the Jews are excluded from God’s salvation because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Israel and the Son of God. Such a claim would find no support in the soteriological understanding of Saint Paul, who in the Letter to the Romans not only gives expression to his conviction that there can be no breach in the history of salvation, but that salvation comes from the Jews (cf. also Jn 4:22). God entrusted Israel with a unique mission, and He does not bring his mysterious plan of salvation for all peoples (cf. 1 Tim 2:4) to fulfilment without drawing into it his "first-born son" (Ex 4:22). From this it is self-evident that Paul in the Letter to the Romans definitively negates the question he himself has posed, whether God has repudiated his own people. Just as decisively he asserts: "For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable" (Rom 11:29). That the Jews are participants in God’s salvation is theologically unquestionable, but how that can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly, is and remains an unfathomable divine mystery. It is therefore no accident that Paul’s soteriological reflections in Romans 9-11 on the irrevocable redemption of Israel against the background of the Christ-mystery culminate in a magnificent doxology: "Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and how unsearchable his ways" (Rom 11:33). Bernard of Clairvaux (De cons. III/I,3) says that for the Jews "a determined point in time has been fixed which cannot be anticipated".

    "THE GIFTS AND THE CALLING OF GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE" (Rom 11:29)

    A REFLECTION ON THEOLOGICAL QUESTIONS PERTAINING TO CATHOLIC–JEWISH RELATIONS ON THE OCCASION OF THE 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF "NOSTRA AETATE" (NO.4)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
      I was talking about the atheist and Christ rejecting Jew down the block....who your church tells they need not have faith in Jesus Christ to be saved.

      36. From the Christian confession that there can be only one path to salvation, however, it does not in any way follow that the Jews are excluded from God’s salvation because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Israel and the Son of God.
      Yeah, yeah, Mercedes. That is what I just said.

      Your sect and its minions go around telling Christ-rejecting Jews that they can be saved without faith in Jesus Christ.

      I appreciate you coming out to tell everyone that I am exactly right. LOL!

      ...
      "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Atemi View Post

        Yeah, yeah, Mercedes. That is what I just said.

        Your sect and its minions go around telling Christ-rejecting Jews that they can be saved without faith in Jesus Christ.

        I appreciate you coming out to tell everyone that I am exactly right. LOL!

        ...
        The paragraph explains why.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Atemi View Post

          Yeah, yeah, Mercedes. That is what I just said.

          Your sect and its minions go around telling Christ-rejecting Jews that they can be saved without faith in Jesus Christ.

          I appreciate you coming out to tell everyone that I am exactly right. LOL!

          ...
          And 64% of your fellow evangelicals believe the same thing.

          So what is your excuse for your sect and minions?
          This crucifix is for us a book with hieroglyphics of might and power, to enable us to read in a second, at one glance, what it otherwise would take us five minutes to read in the Bible. We have often instructed poor slaves who cannot read. We have told them what Jesus has done for them, arid shown them the crucifix, and thus appealed to their eyes and ears in far less time than by any other method." ~ Rt. Rev. John Timon, Prefect to the Republic of Texas

          Comment


          • Define what an Evangelical is,
            so we can examine those bloated statistics?

            There will be a Great Awakening to the Apostolic Canon.

            This Apostolic Blueprint is ordered by God and contains only
            the foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20)


            Believers recall them to maintain a pure mind
            (2 Pet 3:1-2, Rom 12:2).


            ORTHODOXY
            was asleep and became intoxicated (Mat 13:25, Rev 17:2)
            by accepting the canon from the divergent ECFs.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Conqueror View Post
              Define what an Evangelical is,
              so we can examine those bloated statistics?
              In that study, it was people who self identified as evangelicals when asked what their religious belief was.
              This crucifix is for us a book with hieroglyphics of might and power, to enable us to read in a second, at one glance, what it otherwise would take us five minutes to read in the Bible. We have often instructed poor slaves who cannot read. We have told them what Jesus has done for them, arid shown them the crucifix, and thus appealed to their eyes and ears in far less time than by any other method." ~ Rt. Rev. John Timon, Prefect to the Republic of Texas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Atemi View Post

                God already told His church what to do about them. He said go seek and save the lost...via the great commission.

                There is absolutely nothing more to say about such people.

                But I was never talking about the secluded African native far, far away. I was talking about the atheist and Christ rejecting Jew down the block....who your church tells they need not have faith in Jesus Christ to be saved.

                It makes it harder for the Christ follower actually following the great commission when the lost tell them that the RCC and her apologists have already assured them that faith in Christ is unnecessary to be saved.



                I do not struggle with any false doctrines from your sect.



                Well I will not lie to them like your church does.

                ...
                You know the Church is true, but you're like the woman beating the bugs out of the rug. Sometime's the same must be done with one's own intelligence.


                " may achieve eternal salvation" is miles away from any assurance. Your boat may never reach the port, so too grace can be rejected.
                The Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation upon which the truth rests. - (1 Tim 3:15 ) Knox Translation Copyright © 2013

                The Catholic Church - The Only Historical, Visible, and United Body Defending Jesus!

                Circumcisors * Gnostiscism * Montanism * Sabellianism * Arianism * Pelagianism
                * Semi-Pelaginism * Catharism * Nestorianism * Monophystiism * Iconoclasm * Jansenism * and many more.......

                Comment


                • Originally posted by logix View Post

                  Completely false! Doing good works to earn God's favor because one wants to spend eternity with God instead of being eternally separated from Him is virtuous. Comparing those good works to filthy rags is preposterous.
                  The unsaved doing "good works" to be saved is nothing more than filthy rags

                  Isa 64:6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

                  Ones working to be saved makes salvation wages earned.. not a gift of God

                  Romans 8:8 says, “Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”

                  Romans 4:4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness,

                  Working for your salvation makes the works self interest not Gods glory .. it makes salvation earned.. not of grace.. and gives glory to the worker

                  Romans 3;27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of works? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

                  "And if by grace, it is not now by works: otherwise grace is no more grace."

                  If ones salvation rests on his work no one would be saved..


                  Irrelevant since Christianity isn't based on scripture. Creating a religion based on a book is a man-made tradition.
                  Tell that to Jesus that taught using the scriptures, and that told his disciples that the entire OT was about Him.
                  Tell that to the apostles that taught from the scriptures ..and Peter that told his readers that the letters from Paul were scripture..

                  Christianity was built on the revelations of Christ in the scriptures..


                  Yes. It's found in numerous places through scripture but that's another topic.
                  Not actually when one claimed that their works are needed for salvation .. one diminishes the work of the Holy Spirit


                  I don't fail to make that distinction. I consider them to practically be opposites.
                  Ahhh truth.."there is no salvation outside the Catholic church " huh???

                  Thats fair enough I do not believe there is salvation if one believes in Romanism [quote]






                  Have I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth ? Gal 4:16

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

                    The unsaved doing "good works" to be saved is nothing more than filthy rags

                    Isa 64:6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

                    Ones working to be saved makes salvation wages earned.. not a gift of God

                    Romans 8:8 says, “Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”

                    Romans 4:4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness,

                    Working for your salvation makes the works self interest not Gods glory .. it makes salvation earned.. not of grace.. and gives glory to the worker

                    Romans 3;27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of works? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

                    "And if by grace, it is not now by works: otherwise grace is no more grace."

                    If ones salvation rests on his work no one would be saved..


                    Tell that to Jesus that taught using the scriptures, and that told his disciples that the entire OT was about Him.
                    Tell that to the apostles that taught from the scriptures ..and Peter that told his readers that the letters from Paul were scripture..

                    Christianity was built on the revelations of Christ in the scriptures..

                    Not actually when one claimed that their works are needed for salvation .. one diminishes the work of the Holy Spirit

                    Ahhh truth.."there is no salvation outside the Catholic church " huh???

                    Thats fair enough I do not believe there is salvation if one believes in Romanism





                    Catholics do good works to get something.

                    Born again believers do good works for the Glory of God. Self is not part of the equation. We know that doing good works don't garner salvation for ourselves, yet we still do them.

                    Interesting isn't it when you look at what motivates good works.
                    Flies in the sugar bowl, shew shew shew.

                    Jude 17-19

                    Psalm 109

                    Proverbs 29:9

                    Comment




                    • Define what an Evangelical is,
                      so we can examine those bloated statistics?



                      Originally posted by kmerian View Post

                      In that study, it was people who self identified as evangelicals when asked what their religious belief was.
                      Precisely.

                      Does the Catholic think that God would agree
                      with all those Evangelicals?

                      Please don't quote nonsensical data
                      to make a point as it is meaningless.






                      There will be a Great Awakening to the Apostolic Canon.

                      This Apostolic Blueprint is ordered by God and contains only
                      the foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20)


                      Believers recall them to maintain a pure mind
                      (2 Pet 3:1-2, Rom 12:2).


                      ORTHODOXY
                      was asleep and became intoxicated (Mat 13:25, Rev 17:2)
                      by accepting the canon from the divergent ECFs.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

                        The unsaved doing "good works" to be saved is nothing more than filthy rags

                        Isa 64:6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
                        You can't just read scripture out of context if you want to understand it properly. Read the entire chapter in context.


                        Tell that to Jesus that taught using the scriptures, and that told his disciples that the entire OT was about Him.
                        Tell that to the apostles that taught from the scriptures ..and Peter that told his readers that the letters from Paul were scripture..
                        Irrelevant. Christianity is not based on a book. The early Christians didn't have bibles. No one even knew which books were in the canon until the 4th century when the Church decided upon the 73 books in the bible.

                        Ahhh truth.."there is no salvation outside the Catholic church " huh???
                        That's correct.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by logix View Post

                          You can't just read scripture out of context if you want to understand it properly. Read the entire chapter in context.
                          Are you saying that God credits the good works to the "account" of a reprobate?

                          The OT records the character of God, He is the same yesterday ,today and tomorrow ...

                          Matthew 7:22-23 22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'


                          Irrelevant. Christianity is not based on a book. The early Christians didn't have bibles. No one even knew which books were in the canon until the 4th century when the Church decided upon the 73 books in the bible.

                          .
                          Just not true, Peter said the letters from Paul were scripture ... those letters containing the GOSPEL were circulated throughout the churches..
                          Before the canon was organized parts of it were used for teaching in the early Christian church. Different church leaders used books they believed were inspired..
                          I used to have a good chart of who accepted what books, that I can not locate but Matt has a list on Carm

                          https://carm.org/new-testament-canon-chart



                          Have I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth ? Gal 4:16

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

                            5But because of your hard and unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.a 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow wickedness, there will be wrath and anger.


                            The force of this scripture is the righteous that do good works will be rewarded ...those that reject the truth will face the wrath of God and be "rewarded" for their self seeking

                            Seems to me one that does "good works" to be saved is self seeking is rejecting the completed wok of Christ
                            You said the righteous that do good works will be rewarded. What about those that do not, can their faith alone saves them?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

                              Are you saying that God credits the good works to the "account" of a reprobate?
                              I'm saying good works, regardless of who does them, are commendable and should never be regarded as filthy rags.

                              If you read the full chapter of Isaiah 64, I think you'll see that if refers to a people that has turned away from God and chosen to live in sin. They were sinful and didn't do many good works and those they did do weren't much. To give an example, Christians help their neighbors because they lovs them while sinners may only be willing to help their neighbor when they get something in return that is enough to make it worth the effort. If they had no love and only helped because it benefited them then it's not much of a good deed.


                              Matthew 7:22-23 22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
                              Why did you omit verse 21? The full quote says:

                              Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (Matt 7:21-23, NIV)"

                              Those people thought they knew Jesus and had a relationship with him (just like many Protestants today). Like Protestants who think have a relationship with Jesus, they pointed to evidence of that in verse 22. However, verses 21 and 23 show they never knew Jesus because they refused to do God's will and obey His commandments but chose to do evil instead (pride, judging others, hate, bigotry, etc.)


                              Just not true, Peter said the letters from Paul were scripture ... those letters containing the GOSPEL were circulated throughout the churches..
                              Before the canon was organized parts of it were used for teaching in the early Christian church. Different church leaders used books they believed were inspired..
                              I used to have a good chart of who accepted what books, that I can not locate but Matt has a list on Carm
                              I'm aware of the history of the canon. Every one of those church leaders were Catholics. The early Protesters/non-catholic sects had no say. Although 20 of the 27 NT books were accepted by all Catholics early on, their faith was based on the Church's teaching, not their personal interpretation of a bunch of books.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by logix View Post


                                I'm aware of the history of the canon. Every one of those church leaders were Catholics. The early Protesters/non-catholic sects had no say. Although 20 of the 27 NT books were accepted by all Catholics early on, their faith was based on the Church's teaching, not their personal interpretation of a bunch of books.
                                God had no say either
                                in the compilation of the canon.


                                There will be a Great Awakening to the Apostolic Canon.

                                This Apostolic Blueprint is ordered by God and contains only
                                the foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20)


                                Believers recall them to maintain a pure mind
                                (2 Pet 3:1-2, Rom 12:2).


                                ORTHODOXY
                                was asleep and became intoxicated (Mat 13:25, Rev 17:2)
                                by accepting the canon from the divergent ECFs.

                                Comment

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