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Final And Only Authority

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  • Originally posted by highrigger View Post

    Prove it. You make a claim but give no example. You make my case.

    JohnR
    When was the last time you quoted an official source of Catholic doctrine?

    You make our case.
    Save Your people, O Lord, and bless Your inheritance! Grant victory to Your church over evil, and protect Your people by Your Cross! [source: Troparion of the Holy Cross (Byzantine-Ruthenian usage)]

    Comment


    • Originally posted by utilyan View Post



      You know what would have been a real GREAT line its the same one you hear when a new heresy popped up and later left.

      In history you have like the heretics Donatists pop up. And then you have early church fathers, mention whoa who are these new guys popping up, what crazy heresy is this?

      For every heresy and there is tons. you got at least a tiny footnote where someone mentions like their first encounters, the initial surprise and conflict.



      YOU NEVER, hear anyone say "hold on a minute.....who are these new guys called CATHOLICS" Go through the 1000 year fine tooth comb. Never once is there a mention of some BRAND NEW type of unencountered relgion called CATHOLICS.


      The beauty the actual enemies have historical tabs on Catholics from the beginning and then you got these sister churches like Eastern Orthodox and Coptic Churches of Egypt.

      We all know each other from ancient times. There is no baptist bob in the year 100. no calvinist. You ever heard of a greek calvinist? no....they know greek.



      You mention ECFs like Ignatius.


      "Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead."

      "Letter to the Smyrnaeans", paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D.

      "Come together in common, one and all without exception in charity, in one faith and in one Jesus Christ, who is of the race of David according to the flesh, the son of man, and the Son of God, so that with undivided mind you may obey the bishop and the priests, and break one Bread which is the medicine of immortality and the antidote against death, enabling us to live forever in Jesus Christ."

      -"Letter to the Ephesians", paragraph 20, c. 80-110 A.D.

      "I have no taste for the food that perishes nor for the pleasures of this life. I want the Bread of God which is the Flesh of Christ, who was the seed of David; and for drink I desire His Blood which is love that cannot be destroyed."

      -"Letter to the Romans", paragraph 7, circa 80-110 A.D.

      "Take care, then who belong to God and to Jesus Christ - they are with the bishop. And those who repent and come to the unity of the Church - they too shall be of God, and will be living according to Jesus Christ. Do not err, my brethren: if anyone follow a schismatic, he will not inherit the Kingdom of God. If any man walk about with strange doctrine, he cannot lie down with the passion. Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: for there is one Flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup in the union of His Blood; one altar, as there is one bishop with the presbytery and my fellow servants, the deacons."

      -Epistle to the Philadelphians, 3:2-4:1, 110 A.D.



      The priority is Charity not Faith? Thats Catholic.

      The belief in the Real Presence of Jesus in the bread and wine? Thats Catholic.



      If you were to tell me your priority is the commandments as Christ gave, Love God and Love neighbor, you wouldn't hear a peep from Catholics.


      But when you insist absolute things Like FAITH ALONE we say provide scripture and just like the false lie of SS nothing provided. If we are against FAITH alone you twist it and say oh they are against faith.


      We ask show us bible verse that mentions FAITH ALONE. Is there one? YES! Do you want to show it to us? HECK NO!


      why?

      Cause the only time Faith ALONE is mentioned is DIRECTLY AGAINST IT!

      James 2

      24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.




      And you going to try to convince me that its unreasonable for me to be against faith alone when scripture flat out says it!

      You not going to hear me hold it against you personally like its your fault you don't believe the things I do.


      Because I believe it is impossible to read that bible verse and get it wrong unless some divine intervention is there to dumb a person down.
      Problem is that Gods Law will not save because we do not follow it. Do you really think you follow it?

      But trust in Christ will indeed save us. So you have a choice. Believe that you meet Gods Law. OR Trust in the word of Jesus to repent and believe.

      Make a wise choice.

      JohnR

      Comment


      • Originally posted by highrigger View Post

        Make a wise choice.
        OK. We choose to accept that to which Scripture attests and Tradition upholds, that Jesus is truly divine and that He was bodily resurrected.

        If you check your own ecclesial community's website in the section "What do we believe?", you will find that Methodist belief is the same.
        Save Your people, O Lord, and bless Your inheritance! Grant victory to Your church over evil, and protect Your people by Your Cross! [source: Troparion of the Holy Cross (Byzantine-Ruthenian usage)]

        Comment


        • Originally posted by utilyan View Post

          "Your last paragraph is True." GAME OVER. THANK YOU.

          Does God's forgiveness instantly purify you for heaven? IF YES is that the last time? that is called FINAL PURIFICATION.

          When is not the debate. MEANS is not the debate. THE credit to GOD is NOT THE DEBATE.


          That there is a PURGATORY = A FINAL PURIFICATION is the debate.

          THE WORD "PURGATORY" as a label MEANS NOTHING

          It is simply a label for transpires in scripture ---> 1 Cor 3:15; 1 Pet 1:7.

          If that scripture is TRUE, IT IS what it is.

          It doesn't matter what our grammatically challenged brethren BELIEVES what I mean, Because what I mean is "1 Cor 3:15; 1 Pet 1:7".


          EDIT.....>>>>> BACK TO THE ACTUAL TOPIC>

          Our "HONEST" Brethren swear there is a BIBLE verse that supports their rule that the BIBLE IS THE ONLY and FINAL AUTHORITY CHRISTIAN. They swear all their teachings to be biblical.

          SHOW US THE VERSE!!!!!!!!!!


          When the lights goes on the roaches scatter!!!!!! Change subject, dodge, attack character, hide, LIE, deception.

          Where is the brave christian who is going to let out the truth? TELL us where the verse is,


          If there is no verse I want you to vomit it out your "honest" MOUTH!
          those verses in 1 Cor 3 do not mean what catholics want them to mean. When catholics learn not to pull a verse out of context, they might have a break thru in understanding His word. Those verses have nothing to do with something called purgatory.

          verses doing that have been posted on here numerous times. That catholics don't understand them and don't hold His word as their highest authority, is a major problem for catholics. As long as they don't know Him and understand His word, they will continue in that lack of understanding. That is the choice of catholics. Choose this day whom you will serve, God or man.


          "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

          The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

            Why does it bother you that according to Protestants, the Church has only infallibly interpreted 5 verses?. I think that's great if true!
            So then we agree that every sermon, every RC bible study, every RC book is nothing but the speakers, writers own personal opinion...
            I think if the RC church says it is the only one that can interpret scripture accurately they need to interpret the entire bible with their gift of infallibility.


            The more important question is how many verses have been infallibly interpreted by Protestants? How many would you say? I think the answer is zero.
            I have never met a Protestant that believed their interpretation was infallible.. that sin belongs only to Rome


            Have I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth ? Gal 4:16

            Comment


            • Originally posted by utilyan View Post
              The roaches scatter when you turn on the lights.

              The light? ----> Show us the bible verse that states the BIBLE is the Final and Only Authority!

              You folks swear to God to be 100% biblical. Show us the BIBLE verse for scripture clearly stating it is the sole rule of faith, Sola Scriptura.
              Who is it that you totally believe in and follow?


              "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

              The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

                Please cite your source that there are 5 scriptures.
                Could not be many. Fr. Brown says may be none.

                "The Roman Catholic church has rarely, if ever, defined what a text meant
                to the person who wrote it. The church encourages interpreters of Scripture
                to discover with all the scholarly means available to them what individual
                passages meant when they were written and encourages all its members to
                read the Bible for spiritual nourishment. Church interpretation for Catholics
                deals primarily, not with what the biblical text meant when it was written,
                but with what it means for the life of the Christian community in
                subsequent eras."
                Raymond Brown, 101 Questions and Answers To The Bible. page 120 Imprimatur

                JohnR

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

                  OK. We choose to accept that to which Scripture attests and Tradition upholds, that Jesus is truly divine and that He was bodily resurrected.

                  If you check your own ecclesial community's website in the section "What do we believe?", you will find that Methodist belief is the same.
                  The question was what saves? Repentance and belief OR your good works?

                  Jesus made no issue of that. However Paul did regarding bodily resurrection in 1 Cor 15:50

                  You are changing the subject. I notice you do that when you are losing the argument.

                  JohnR

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

                    Non-authoritative Catholic sources. There's a huge difference. You don't understand Catholicism at all.
                    Better than you by far.

                    JohnR

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

                      Why does it bother you that according to Protestants, the Church has only infallibly interpreted 5 verses?. I think that's great if true!

                      The more important question is how many verses have been infallibly interpreted by Protestants? How many would you say? I think the answer is zero.
                      No bother. It is funny how Catholics say their church interprets infallibly when they do not interpret at all.

                      Most Catholics do not know their religion.

                      I think Protestants are much better at interpreting scripture. They see the simple meaning. They believe the words of Jesus and don't find a verse

                      with fire in it and claim it means Purgatory or depend on nameless women in Revelation to support their views of Mary.

                      JohnR

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

                        I have never met a Protestant that believed their interpretation was infallible.. that sin belongs only to Rome
                        And that's why I am an ex-Protestant. For Protestants, the Bible is the only source of divine revelation yet one can't infallibly know anything that is taught is completely true.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by highrigger View Post

                          No bother. It is funny how Catholics say their church interprets infallibly when they do not interpret at all.

                          Most Catholics do not know their religion.

                          I think Protestants are much better at interpreting scripture. They see the simple meaning. They believe the words of Jesus and don't find a verse

                          with fire in it and claim it means Purgatory or depend on nameless women in Revelation to support their views of Mary.

                          JohnR
                          John 3:5 was interpreted infallibly at Trent. That's one Scripture.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by highrigger View Post
                            The question was what saves? Repentance and belief OR your good works?
                            Jesus saves

                            Jesus made no issue of that. However Paul did regarding bodily resurrection in 1 Cor 15:50
                            Perhaps you should consider that your interpretation of Paul may not be all that orthodox ...

                            You are changing the subject. I notice you do that when you are losing the argument.
                            No, I interjected, as you so often do ...


                            Save Your people, O Lord, and bless Your inheritance! Grant victory to Your church over evil, and protect Your people by Your Cross! [source: Troparion of the Holy Cross (Byzantine-Ruthenian usage)]

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post
                              And that's why I am an ex-Protestant. For Protestants, the Bible is the only source of divine revelation yet one can't infallibly know anything that is taught is completely true.
                              yes, one can infallibly know some things. Those confirmed by the Holy Spirit.


                              "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                              The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

                                John 3:5 was interpreted infallibly at Trent. That's one Scripture.
                                catholics have no infallibility, nor the guidance of the Holy Spirit. RCC men claim they are infallible, not God.


                                "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                                The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                                Comment

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