Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

The true final authority

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The true final authority

    How can we know who/what is the true final authority for the Christian faith? Answer - when the true final authority has spoken there is no more debate. All debate has ended and the issue is settled.

    The perfect example of this is recorded for us by Luke in the Acts of the apostles.

    Acts 15:5-11, "But some believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and said, “It is necessary for them to be circumcised and ordered to keep the law of Moses.” The apostles and the elders met together to consider this matter. After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “My brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that I should be the one through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the good news and become believers. And God, who knows the human heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us; and in cleansing their hearts by faith he has made no distinction between them and us. Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”"

    The issue at the first counsel in Jerusalem was circumcision of the Gentile believers. An issue that led to much debate. The debate ended when Peter got up and spoke.

    So who/what was the final authority in the early church on the issue of circumcision? It was Peter; it was not scripture alone.

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot

    "There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." Betsy ten Boom

    "God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love." John Paul II

    ’Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ One of the greatest responses in all of scripture.

  • #2
    Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post
    The issue at the first counsel in Jerusalem was circumcision of the Gentile believers. An issue that led to much debate. The debate ended when Peter got up and spoke.
    Not at all. The debate began when Peter got up to speak to the other apostles and elders (verses 7-11).

    When he was finished, verse 12 tells us that “all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul.”

    “And after they had become silent, James answered (verse 13) saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me.” James went on to speak and in verse 19 we find it is James, not Peter, who made the final decision .. “Therefore, I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God”.

    It really makes a difference when one reads in context.




    We are either in the process of resisting God's truth or in the process of being shaped and molded by his truth … Charles Stanley

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

      Acts 15:5-11, "But some believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and said, “It is necessary for them to be circumcised and ordered to keep the law of Moses.” The apostles and the elders met together to consider this matter. After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “My brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that I should be the one through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the good news and become believers. And God, who knows the human heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us; and in cleansing their hearts by faith he has made no distinction between them and us. Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”"

      Another fable!
      The gospel to the circumcised was by Peter
      and Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (Ga 2:7-8).


      There will be a Great Awakening to the Apostolic Canon.

      Which is ordered by God and contains only
      foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20, 2 Pet 3:1-2)


      In the latter days ... the word of the LORD
      shall go forth from Jerusalem
      (Mic 4:1-2, Isaiah 2:3)

      But sleepy Christendom (Mat 13:25) accepted
      the Roman canon to become intoxicated (Rev 17:2)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Conqueror View Post


        Another fable!
        The gospel to the circumcised was by Peter (Ga 2:7).


        So Acts is not the inspired word of God?
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot

        "There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." Betsy ten Boom

        "God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love." John Paul II

        ’Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ One of the greatest responses in all of scripture.

        Comment


        • #5

          Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

          Acts 15:5-11, "But some believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and said, “It is necessary for them to be circumcised and ordered to keep the law of Moses.” The apostles and the elders met together to consider this matter. After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “My brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that I should be the one through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the good news and become believers. And God, who knows the human heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us; and in cleansing their hearts by faith he has made no distinction between them and us. Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”"

          Another fable!
          The gospel to the circumcised was by Peter
          and Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (Ga 2:7-8).


          Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

          So Acts is not the inspired word of God?
          CARM considers Luke to be inspired,
          so that is to be respected on their website.

          However there is a discrepancy !!!!


          (1 Cor 4:6) that you may learn in us not to think
          BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN


          ......... by those foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20)


          Obedience to that apostolic truth should fix that, if you can hear.




          There will be a Great Awakening to the Apostolic Canon.

          Which is ordered by God and contains only
          foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20, 2 Pet 3:1-2)


          In the latter days ... the word of the LORD
          shall go forth from Jerusalem
          (Mic 4:1-2, Isaiah 2:3)

          But sleepy Christendom (Mat 13:25) accepted
          the Roman canon to become intoxicated (Rev 17:2)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by nan View Post

            Not at all. The debate began when Peter got up to speak to the other apostles and elders (verses 7-11).
            That is false. It says "The apostles and the elders met together to consider this matter. After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them...."

            The debate didn't begin when Peter got up to speak, it ended.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot

            "There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." Betsy ten Boom

            "God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love." John Paul II

            ’Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ One of the greatest responses in all of scripture.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Conqueror View Post


              Another fable!
              The gospel to the circumcised was by Peter
              and Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (Ga 2:7-8).




              CARM considers Luke to be inspired,
              so that is to be respected on their website.

              However there is a discrepancy !!!!


              (1 Cor 4:6) that you may learn in us not to think
              BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN


              ......... by those foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20)


              Obedience to that apostolic truth should fix that, if you can hear.



              I am thinking about becoming a ss Christian that way I can remove Paul's letters from scripture.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot

              "There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." Betsy ten Boom

              "God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love." John Paul II

              ’Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ One of the greatest responses in all of scripture.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post
                That is false. It says "The apostles and the elders met together to consider this matter. After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them...."

                The debate didn't begin when Peter got up to speak, it ended.

                The apostle Peter spoke and then James hi-jacked the council:

                James answered, saying,
                Men and brethren, listen to ME, ME, ME:
                (Acts 15:13), not the apostle Peter !!!

                There will be a Great Awakening to the Apostolic Canon.

                Which is ordered by God and contains only
                foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20, 2 Pet 3:1-2)


                In the latter days ... the word of the LORD
                shall go forth from Jerusalem
                (Mic 4:1-2, Isaiah 2:3)

                But sleepy Christendom (Mat 13:25) accepted
                the Roman canon to become intoxicated (Rev 17:2)

                Comment


                • #9
                  CARM considers Luke to be inspired,
                  so that is to be respected on their website.

                  However there is a discrepancy !!!!


                  (1 Cor 4:6) that you may learn in us not to think
                  BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN


                  ......... by those foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20)


                  Obedience to that apostolic truth should fix that, if you can hear.


                  Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

                  I am thinking about becoming a ss Christian that way I can remove Paul's letters from scripture.
                  Paul wrote the apostolic truth.

                  It just so happens that Luke is exposed,
                  like darnel turns black at the harvest (Mat 13:25)
                  There will be a Great Awakening to the Apostolic Canon.

                  Which is ordered by God and contains only
                  foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20, 2 Pet 3:1-2)


                  In the latter days ... the word of the LORD
                  shall go forth from Jerusalem
                  (Mic 4:1-2, Isaiah 2:3)

                  But sleepy Christendom (Mat 13:25) accepted
                  the Roman canon to become intoxicated (Rev 17:2)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Conqueror View Post
                    CARM considers Luke to be inspired,
                    so that is to be respected on their website.

                    However there is a discrepancy !!!!


                    (1 Cor 4:6) that you may learn in us not to think
                    BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN


                    ......... by those foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20)


                    Obedience to that apostolic truth should fix that, if you can hear.




                    Paul wrote the apostolic truth.

                    It just so happens that Luke is exposed,
                    like darnel turns black at the harvest (Mat 13:25)
                    I guess ss Christians can determine for themselves what writings are the inspired word of God. Good thing I belong to the CC which is the "church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth."
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot

                    "There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." Betsy ten Boom

                    "God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love." John Paul II

                    ’Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ One of the greatest responses in all of scripture.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Conqueror View Post
                      CARM considers Luke to be inspired,
                      so that is to be respected on their website.

                      However there is a discrepancy !!!!


                      (1 Cor 4:6) that you may learn in us not to think
                      BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN


                      ......... by those foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20)


                      Obedience to that apostolic truth should fix that, if you can hear.




                      Paul wrote the apostolic truth.

                      It just so happens that Luke is exposed,
                      like darnel turns black at the harvest (Mat 13:25)
                      As a ss Christian I am not going to accept Paul's letters as the inspired word of God. I mean why should I accept them as the inspired word of God.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot

                      "There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." Betsy ten Boom

                      "God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love." John Paul II

                      ’Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ One of the greatest responses in all of scripture.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

                        Acts 15:5-11, "But some believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and said, “It is necessary for them to be circumcised and ordered to keep the law of Moses.” The apostles and the elders met together to consider this matter. After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “My brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that I should be the one through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the good news and become believers. And God, who knows the human heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us; and in cleansing their hearts by faith he has made no distinction between them and us. Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”"

                        Another fable!

                        The gospel to the circumcised was by Peter
                        and Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (Ga 2:7-8).
                        Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

                        I guess ss Christians can determine for themselves what writings are the inspired word of God. Good thing I belong to the CC which is the "church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth."
                        RCism has infallibly declared that both opposites are inspired.

                        I don't have to add anything to that absurdity.


                        There will be a Great Awakening to the Apostolic Canon.

                        Which is ordered by God and contains only
                        foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20, 2 Pet 3:1-2)


                        In the latter days ... the word of the LORD
                        shall go forth from Jerusalem
                        (Mic 4:1-2, Isaiah 2:3)

                        But sleepy Christendom (Mat 13:25) accepted
                        the Roman canon to become intoxicated (Rev 17:2)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post
                          That is false. It says "The apostles and the elders met together to consider this matter. After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them...."

                          The debate didn't begin when Peter got up to speak, it ended.
                          He began the debate after much discussion among the apostles and elders. Then Paul and Barnabas spoke. And after that James spoke. That is what a debate is. Not just one person speaking, but everyone contributing their thoughts on the issue.

                          And it was James who made the final decision ... “Therefore, I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God” ... not Peter.

                          Although I find it troubling that you didn't include the others who spoke after Peter, I understand why.
                          We are either in the process of resisting God's truth or in the process of being shaped and molded by his truth … Charles Stanley

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nan View Post

                            He began the debate after much discussion among the apostles and elders. Then Paul and Barnabas spoke. And after that James spoke. That is what a debate is. Not just one person speaking, but everyone contributing their thoughts on the issue.

                            And it was James who made the final decision ... “Therefore, I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God” ... not Peter.

                            Although I find it troubling that you didn't include the others who spoke after Peter, I understand why.
                            James (the unbelieving brother of Jesus) answered, saying,
                            Men and brethren, listen to ME, ME, ME:
                            (Acts 15:13), not the apostle Peter !!!
                            There will be a Great Awakening to the Apostolic Canon.

                            Which is ordered by God and contains only
                            foundational prophets and apostles (Eph 2:20, 2 Pet 3:1-2)


                            In the latter days ... the word of the LORD
                            shall go forth from Jerusalem
                            (Mic 4:1-2, Isaiah 2:3)

                            But sleepy Christendom (Mat 13:25) accepted
                            the Roman canon to become intoxicated (Rev 17:2)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post
                              How can we know who/what is the true final authority for the Christian faith? Answer - when the true final authority has spoken there is no more debate. All debate has ended and the issue is settled.

                              The perfect example of this is recorded for us by Luke in the Acts of the apostles.

                              Acts 15:5-11, "But some believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and said, “It is necessary for them to be circumcised and ordered to keep the law of Moses.” The apostles and the elders met together to consider this matter. After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “My brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that I should be the one through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the good news and become believers. And God, who knows the human heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us; and in cleansing their hearts by faith he has made no distinction between them and us. Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”"

                              The issue at the first counsel in Jerusalem was circumcision of the Gentile believers. An issue that led to much debate. The debate ended when Peter got up and spoke.

                              So who/what was the final authority in the early church on the issue of circumcision? It was Peter; it was not scripture alone.
                              This is funny coming from an anti-ss Catholic because you just used Scripture ALONE as your final and only authority. BUSTED.

                              Besides

                              Scripture doesn't say Peter was the final authority.
                              It's been my observation and discovery that Catholic & Scripture do not go hand in hand.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X