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Sin Nature

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  • Sin Nature


    If Mary was in fact conceived without sin, as the Roman Catholic Church infallibly proclaims, does that then mean that Mary was equally as sinless as our Lord and Savior Jesus was?

    RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
    If Mary was in fact conceived without sin, as the Roman Catholic Church infallibly proclaims, does that then mean that Mary was equally as sinless as our Lord and Savior Jesus was?
    Yup. Just as sinless as Jesus is.

    But when I was a Catholic, the implication was that Mary's feat was more special. Why? Because she was only a human being. Hey, how hard is it for GOD to not sin? But for someone who is only human?

    So in Catholicism, Mary is better than Jesus....again.

    ...

    "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
      If Mary was in fact conceived without sin, as the Roman Catholic Church infallibly proclaims, does that then mean that Mary was equally as sinless as our Lord and Savior Jesus was?
      Why do you ask?
      "He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4, NKJV)"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
        If Mary was in fact conceived without sin, as the Roman Catholic Church infallibly proclaims ...
        ... canít even complete the sentence without error.

        All decendents of Adam are subject to the consequences of the Fall, including Mary. She would not be human otherwise. Rather, what the Church teaches is that she was preserved from all stain of original sin from the moment of her conception. The teaching has nothing to do with the manner in which she was conceived.
        Though the godless poured poison in to your veins, your heart still beats with love for Christ,
        O bishop Theodore, martyred father, who now raise your prayers before the Throne of God.

        [Kontakion of Blessed Theodore (Byzantine-Ruthenian usage)]

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

          ... can’t even complete the sentence without error.

          All decendents of Adam are subject to the consequences of the Fall, including Mary. She would not be human otherwise. Rather, what the Church teaches is that she was preserved from all stain of original sin from the moment of her conception. The teaching has nothing to do with the manner in which she was conceived.
          Let's wait for Atemi to present the quote from St. Ambrose claiming Mary stained with sin, so I can present the quote like last year where I showed he was wrong yet again.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
            If Mary was in fact conceived without sin, as the Roman Catholic Church infallibly proclaims, does that then mean that Mary was equally as sinless as our Lord and Savior Jesus was?
            Here's a bomb for you...

            Since Evangelicals are so hmmm polemic in this thread, then let's throw the real problem to the front.

            Evangelicals believe that human nature was "radically corrupted" and also made "totally depraved" because of Adam's sin. Therefore, every human after Adam, including the Virgin Mary, was born with a corrupt or depraved "sin nature". Evangelicals agree that the only exception is Jesus. He did not have a sin nature instead he had perfectly upright human nature.

            Do we all agree that Jesus received His humanity from Mary? (if he received it from somewhere else then he is NOT human, and that's a heresy yet some Evangelical CARMists believe this... see: Why Catholics follow the "unscriptural" position that God used Mary's egg?)

            But Evangelicals claim that Mary was born with a "sin nature"!. Evangelicals are in the dilemma that Mary thus passes her "sin nature" to Jesus! and that's an heresy!.

            Evangelicals have two choices:

            Jesus took Mary's "sin nature" (Heresy) or Jesus did not take Mary's "sin nature" (i.e. Jesus did not truly share in our humanity!, and thus the Incarnation never happened, which is another Heresy).

            So which of the two difficult choices would Evangelicals choose: Did Jesus have a 'sin nature' or did the Incarnation never happen?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
              If Mary was in fact conceived without sin, as the Roman Catholic Church infallibly proclaims, does that then mean that Mary was equally as sinless as our Lord and Savior Jesus was?
              I only know one definition of sinless. If someone has sinned, then they are not sinless. Do you have another definition?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by CatholicScripture View Post

                Here's a bomb for you...

                Since Evangelicals are so hmmm polemic in this thread, then let's throw the real problem to the front.

                Evangelicals believe that human nature was "radically corrupted" and also made "totally depraved" because of Adam's sin. Therefore, every human after Adam, including the Virgin Mary, was born with a corrupt or depraved "sin nature". Evangelicals agree that the only exception is Jesus. He did not have a sin nature instead he had perfectly upright human nature.

                Do we all agree that Jesus received His humanity from Mary? (if he received it from somewhere else then he is NOT human, and that's a heresy yet some Evangelical CARMists believe this... see: Why Catholics follow the "unscriptural" position that God used Mary's egg?)

                But Evangelicals claim that Mary was born with a "sin nature"!. Evangelicals are in the dilemma that Mary thus passes her "sin nature" to Jesus! and that's an heresy!.

                Evangelicals have two choices:

                Jesus took Mary's "sin nature" (Heresy) or Jesus did not take Mary's "sin nature" (i.e. Jesus did not truly share in our humanity!, and thus the Incarnation never happened, which is another Heresy).

                So which of the two difficult choices would Evangelicals choose: Did Jesus have a 'sin nature' or did the Incarnation never happen?
                nope, no dilemma there. catholics are the ones who make this stuff up.

                btw, this has all been discussed on here before - maybe a yr or so ago.
                "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

                  I only know one definition of sinless. If someone has sinned, then they are not sinless. Do you have another definition?
                  ask the catholic who posted here that he doesn't sin.

                  "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                  The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CatholicScripture View Post

                    Here's a bomb for you...

                    Since Evangelicals are so hmmm polemic in this thread, then let's throw the real problem to the front.

                    Evangelicals believe that human nature was "radically corrupted" and also made "totally depraved" because of Adam's sin. Therefore, every human after Adam, including the Virgin Mary, was born with a corrupt or depraved "sin nature". Evangelicals agree that the only exception is Jesus. He did not have a sin nature instead he had perfectly upright human nature.

                    Do we all agree that Jesus received His humanity from Mary? (if he received it from somewhere else then he is NOT human, and that's a heresy yet some Evangelical CARMists believe this... see: Why Catholics follow the "unscriptural" position that God used Mary's egg?)

                    But Evangelicals claim that Mary was born with a "sin nature"!. Evangelicals are in the dilemma that Mary thus passes her "sin nature" to Jesus! and that's an heresy!.

                    Evangelicals have two choices:

                    Jesus took Mary's "sin nature" (Heresy) or Jesus did not take Mary's "sin nature" (i.e. Jesus did not truly share in our humanity!, and thus the Incarnation never happened, which is another Heresy).

                    which of the two difficult choices would Evangelicals choose: Did Jesus have a 'sin nature' or did the Incarnation never happen?
                    Neither. They're both flawed. You do realize Jesus had no earthly father right? I think you're missing some very elemental facts here. Maybe to promote your sect?
                    Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mica View Post

                      ask the catholic who posted here that he doesn't sin.
                      Or the Catholic claim there's "million sinless people".

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CatholicScripture View Post

                        But Evangelicals claim that Mary was born with a "sin nature"!. Evangelicals are in the dilemma that Mary thus passes her "sin nature" to Jesus! and that's an heresy!.
                        Thats only your opinion. The Catholic dilemma is St. Anne (if that's really Mary's mothers name) passing on her sin nature to Mary. Then that creates another dilemma for Catholics because all of Mary's grandparents had to be sinless too.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

                          ... can’t even complete the sentence without error.

                          All decendents of Adam are subject to the consequences of the Fall, including Mary. She would not be human otherwise. Rather, what the Church teaches is that she was preserved from all stain of original sin from the moment of her conception. The teaching has nothing to do with the manner in which she was conceived.
                          There isn't any error in Raynebeau's sentence nor criticizing someone for repeating a common Roman Catholic term necessary.
                          Last edited by Angels_Sing; 05-18-18, 07:10 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
                            If Mary was in fact conceived without sin, as the Roman Catholic Church infallibly proclaims, does that then mean that Mary was equally as sinless as our Lord and Savior Jesus was?
                            The question isis Mary had to be sinless to carry a sinless infant, why didn't her mother need to be sinless... and then her mother and her mother etc....
                            Have I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth ? Gal 4:16

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CatholicScripture View Post

                              Here's a bomb for you...

                              Since Evangelicals are so hmmm polemic in this thread, then let's throw the real problem to the front.

                              Evangelicals believe that human nature was "radically corrupted" and also made "totally depraved" because of Adam's sin. Therefore, every human after Adam, including the Virgin Mary, was born with a corrupt or depraved "sin nature". Evangelicals agree that the only exception is Jesus. He did not have a sin nature instead he had perfectly upright human nature.

                              Do we all agree that Jesus received His humanity from Mary? (if he received it from somewhere else then he is NOT human, and that's a heresy yet some Evangelical CARMists believe this... see: Why Catholics follow the "unscriptural" position that God used Mary's egg?)

                              But Evangelicals claim that Mary was born with a "sin nature"!. Evangelicals are in the dilemma that Mary thus passes her "sin nature" to Jesus! and that's an heresy!.

                              Evangelicals have two choices:

                              Jesus took Mary's "sin nature" (Heresy) or Jesus did not take Mary's "sin nature" (i.e. Jesus did not truly share in our humanity!, and thus the Incarnation never happened, which is another Heresy).

                              So which of the two difficult choices would Evangelicals choose: Did Jesus have a 'sin nature' or did the Incarnation never happen?
                              It has been traditionally believed that original sin is "passed on" by the father ... but that aside.. Jesus inherited His humanity (yes He could be tempted ) from Mary and His divinity from His Father.

                              Only Jesus, both God and man could be an advocate before God for mens sin

                              “He became what we are that we might become what he is.”
                              Have I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth ? Gal 4:16

                              Comment

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