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  • Originally posted by mica View Post
    those who are born again (which doesn't happen by water baptism).

    But what does that mean? What are the discernible qualities of a 'born again'?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
      But you said that that not all born again believers are Christians?

      You have repeatedly claimed that many Protestant aren't Christian based you your qualifications?
      link to the post where I said what you've posted above...

      maybe I posted that not all who claim to be born again, are. there's a big difference.

      being 'protestant' doesn't make anyone a believer. maybe a 'churchgoer' tho. Many of those aren't Christian.

      going to or belonging to a church doesn't make anyone a believer.




      "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

      The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

        But what does that mean? What are the discernible qualities of a 'born again'?
        Those who are committed to follow Jesus
        and have therefore access to the Father through the Holy Spirit,
        always call on God first;

        to reject sacerdotalism
        and it produce which claims a fleeting presence.

        We simply don't need Frankie and his opinions
        to be mastered by him and his mates.

        Jesus set us free indeed.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by mica View Post
          link to the post where I said what you've posted above...

          maybe I posted that not all who claim to be born again, are. there's a big difference.

          being 'protestant' doesn't make anyone a believer. maybe a 'churchgoer' tho. Many of those aren't Christian.

          going to or belonging to a church doesn't make anyone a believer.



          You make ambiguous, vague claims. What exactly does make someone a Christian? Is this where you claim that being saved is subject to 'secret knowledge'. You claim others aren't saved not by any discernible characteristics but by a special secret 'knowledge'? That is gnosticism.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

            What exactly does make someone a Christian?
            Your choice is sacerdotalism,
            which nullifies the need for the Saviour !!!!


            I don't know this poster, but he sums it up nicely:


            Originally posted by yosef View Post


            Yeshua spoke against sin in all of its forms, yet it was blind adherence to man-made traditions(by the religious leaders, no less)that He spoke against most often and most vociferously.
            Last edited by Conqueror; 06-14-18, 01:12 AM.

            Comment



            • Originally posted by yosef View Post



              Yeshua spoke against sin in all of its forms, yet it was blind adherence to man-made traditions(by the religious leaders, no less)that He spoke against most often and most vociferously.
              Mercedes


              With love from further Downunder.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by kirby View Post
                Well I certainly believe those verses. Our righteousness is not gained through the law. It's gained by sharing in the Divine Nature of Christ.
                Well, that is not Paul's point in those verses. We cannot attain righteousness through the Law because we are not able to fulfill its demands. All the Law can do is to make us "conscious of sin" (Rom. 3:20). It is, however, theoretically possible to be justified through the Law, but no one is able to walk that path.
                Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: "The person who does these things will live by them." (Rom. 10:5)
                So to repeat, there is in fact a "righteousness that is by the law", but we, who are sinners, cannot satisfy its demands. We are justified by the obedience of Christ, rather than by our own obedience.
                For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." (Gal. 3:10)
                The implied argument is that those who rely on the works of the Law are under a curse, because the Law demands that we do everything it commands - and no one does.

                Inasmuch as we cooperate or not with Grace our righteousness, our share in God's Nature, grows or shrinks.
                Curious as always: where does the Bible use the expression "cooperate with grace" (sounds nonsensical to me), and where does it even hint at the idea that our share in God's nature grows or shrinks with our "cooperation"? Either we are in Christ or we are not. It is a binary variable, to use a scientific expression.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

                  The reason that I'll never accept the church as without government, is that not just common sense, but perennial evidence proves that "absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as an ideal." is by very nature, anarchy. It is mess and diminishes the value of the individual as it descends into survival of the fittest mode. We can see that clearly by the fact that the Catholic Church and the other churches that still uphold an institutional model as per Scripture... are the greatest advocates of religious education providing religious schools and the greatest advocates of universal health and universal charity work. Without unifying doctrines and collegiality, none of those ventures can work. When church means just a theoretical ideal then so does faith and charity and love mean just a theoretical ideal.
                  I said nothing about not having "government." Or espousing anarchy. My church has a president and vice-president, etc. for order in our church and to make sure teachings in our church are kept biblical. But they are not our spiritual leaders whose every word is law in our church.

                  But having the ability to bind and loose is something all Christians have in the church universal. We are all a "priesthood of believers' and it is Jesus Christ Who has made us a "kingdom, priests to God the Father." HE gave us this priesthood; therefore HE gave us this ability. That does not mean we don't need leadership and workers in our church to handle the day-to-day workings of the church. We still need ministers to teach us the full counsel of God--both law and Gospel--and to distribute the Lord's Supper and Holy Baptism, although any Christian could do the latter in a pinch, if an ordained minister of the word were not available.
                  "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                  "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                  “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
                  "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                  "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
                    You make ambiguous, vague claims. What exactly does make someone a Christian? Is this where you claim that being saved is subject to 'secret knowledge'. You claim others aren't saved not by any discernible characteristics but by a special secret 'knowledge'? That is gnosticism.
                    don't change the subject.

                    you posted this

                    Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

                    But you said that that not all born again believers are Christians?

                    You have repeatedly claimed that many Protestant aren't Christian based you your qualifications?
                    post the link to where I said that.

                    "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                    The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
                      But you said that that not all born again believers are Christians? You have repeatedly claimed that many Protestant aren't Christian based you your qualifications?
                      Originally posted by mica View Post

                      post the link to where I said that.
                      posted on 5/14/2018

                      Originally posted by mica View Post
                      and as I've often posted, many, many (probably most) protestants are not believers in Christ. No one is until they're born again.
                      Christ is risen from the dead! By death He trampled death, and to those in the tombs, He granted life!. [source: Troparion of the Resurrection (Byzantine-Ruthenian usage)]

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post



                        posted on 5/14/2018

                        Great. Now post a link to him saying this.

                        "But you said that that not all born again believers are Christians? "
                        Goats love their tea!

                        Strong's #3982

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Peitho View Post

                          Great. Now post a link to him saying this.

                          "But you said that that not all born again believers are Christians? "
                          I would take her to have meant the repeated claims that not all who call themselves "Christian" are "born again", which would be consistent with the latter point - not all Protestants are "born again".

                          1/16/2018

                          Originally posted by mica View Post
                          there's always the possibility, that some using the label 'evangelical', aren't believers (born again). Just as some use the labels 'Christian' or 'believer', but aren't born again.
                          11/21/2017

                          Originally posted by mica View Post
                          going to (or belonging to) an Evangelical church, does not make anyone born again.

                          nor does using the label 'Christian', make anyone a born again believer.
                          Christ is risen from the dead! By death He trampled death, and to those in the tombs, He granted life!. [source: Troparion of the Resurrection (Byzantine-Ruthenian usage)]

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

                            I would take her to have meant the repeated claims that not all who call themselves "Christian" are "born again", which would be consistent with the latter point - not all Protestants are "born again".

                            1/16/2018



                            11/21/2017
                            Great. Now just post where he said this.

                            "But you said that that not all born again believers are Christians? "

                            Goats love their tea!

                            Strong's #3982

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by mica View Post
                              what was behind those works? it wasn't the works, it was what caused those works. They were His people. His sheep. the goats were not.
                              Where does Jesus say that in the text?

                              33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[f] you did it to me.’

                              41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
                              The sheep are the sheep because they obey Christ and follow the royal law (James 2:8), because *they did what the goats did not*. And the goats are the goats because they did not do what the sheep did.


                              Abraham's faith was active, because he believed what God said.
                              He believed what God said. He didn't turn to his neighbors or the local 'church' for his truth. He believed the words of God.
                              I mean, the church didn't exist then?

                              Who was he speaking to? yes, he was speaking to Jews. Jewish believers who were still acting as if they were under the law.
                              yes, it is an outward sign to others.
                              But the same justification verse is used in both instances---before God, not before man.

                              if the catholic 'perspective' is salvation without works, catholics don't know about it. a catholic just posted (probably in the last 10 hrs) about needing 'works'. They never fail to toss those in.
                              and yes, they boast about what 'works' they do.
                              Because Jesus says they're important.

                              'work out our salvation' is not about 'works' as catholics know them. that's about reading and learning His word. learning to understand it, bible study, teachings, bible study, research, reading it, discussing it with other believers, and telling unbelievers about it, stumbling and picking one's self up, spending time in communication with God (that's not prescripted words made up by men), listen to the Holy Spirit... and then starting it all over the next day thru - out the rest of one's life here on earth.
                              Where is this in the bible?
                              “Have Jesus always for your patron, His Cross for a mast on which you must spread your resolutions as a sail. Your anchor shall be a profound confidence in Him, and you shall sail prosperously.” ― St. Francis de Sales

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by mica View Post
                                who here posted that? catholic imagination running wild?

                                the work that He did, turned our lives around majorly at one time in our past. And His 'work' keeps us holding on tight to Him every single day of our lives, and will continue in that until He calls us home to Him.


                                I doubt any born again believer is 'as sinful now as they were before', even tho that's what you'd like to think.

                                OTOH, God doesn't see our sin, when He looks at us. He sees the face of His Son.

                                Evangelicals claim here that the Gospel is antinomian, it doesn't matter if you Obey God.

                                Comment

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