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Roman Catholic Tradition

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  • Roman Catholic Tradition

    The Roman Catholic Church claims that oral Tradition is a second channel of divine revelation, inspired by God, and is equally as authoritative as Scripture. The Roman Catholic Church also makes the claim that this was the view held by the Fathers of the early church. By what authority can the RCC make such claims about themselves? It should surprise no one that the RCC makes these unfounded claims for herself, by herself.
    RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
    The Roman Catholic Church claims that oral Tradition is a second channel of divine revelation, inspired by God, and is equally as authoritative as Scripture. The Roman Catholic Church also makes the claim that this was the view held by the Fathers of the early church. By what authority can the RCC make such claims about themselves? It should surprise no one that the RCC makes these unfounded claims for herself, by herself.
    There is a reason they cannot identify it. The oral traditions outside scripture is lost. Catholic experts realize this.

    "After the apostles had died, their authority passed rather naturally from their persons
    to their writings, because that was all the Church had left of them - that and a few
    tombs.
    The Bible, the Church and Authority, Fr. Joseph T. Lienhard, p38

    JohnR

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by highrigger View Post

      There is a reason they cannot identify it. The oral traditions outside scripture is lost. Catholic experts realize this.

      "After the apostles had died, their authority passed rather naturally from their persons
      to their writings, because that was all the Church had left of them - that and a few
      tombs.
      The Bible, the Church and Authority, Fr. Joseph T. Lienhard, p38

      JohnR
      Thanks John . I appreciate you posting that.
      Yet there are false statements published by Roman Catholic theologians whose views contradict Scripture and history, like John Hardon S.J., who affirms the RCC view I posted in the OP as being the official position of the Roman Catholic Church:
      "We find the truth revealed by God in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.....Both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are the inspired word of God, and both are forms of divine revelation. Sacred Scripture is divinely inspired writing, whereas Sacred Tradition is the unwritten word of inspired persons.....The Bible and Sacred Tradition are of equal authority because they are equally the word of God; both derive from the inspired vision of the ancient prophets, and especially from the infinite wisdom of God incarnate who gave to the apostles what he came down on earth to teach through them, to all of mankind."
      Hardon can say whatever he wants to, but the real question remains: - Where does Scripture teach that tradition is inspired?
      RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
        The Roman Catholic Church claims that oral Tradition is a second channel of divine revelation, inspired by God, and is equally as authoritative as Scripture. The Roman Catholic Church also makes the claim that this was the view held by the Fathers of the early church. By what authority can the RCC make such claims about themselves? It should surprise no one that the RCC makes these unfounded claims for herself, by herself.
        Curiously there are some folks who don't know what oral tradition is and they're Catholic.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Angels_Sing View Post

          Curiously there are some folks who don't know what oral tradition is and they're Catholic.
          So true, and sadly enough the majority of Roman Catholics don't even know Scripture, much less oral tradition versus Holy Scripture.
          I wonder how many Roman Catholics (practicing or not) even vaguely realize that Scripture never teaches that tradition is inspired, and that in all actuality Scripture gives us numerous warnings against tradition.
          Last edited by Raynebeau; 06-10-18, 02:22 PM.
          RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by highrigger View Post

            There is a reason they cannot identify it. The oral traditions outside scripture is lost. Catholic experts realize this.

            "After the apostles had died, their authority passed rather naturally from their persons
            to their writings, because that was all the Church had left of them - that and a few
            tombs.
            The Bible, the Church and Authority, Fr. Joseph T. Lienhard, p38

            JohnR
            When the early fathers spoke of a Tradition handed down from the Apostles, independent of Scripture, weren't they just referring to ecclesiastical customs and practices only - and never to doctrine?
            RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post

              When the early fathers spoke of a Tradition handed down from the Apostles, independent of Scripture, weren't they just referring to ecclesiastical customs and practices only - and never to doctrine?
              Maybe, But one thing is for sure. They turned gossip and desires into facts and customs.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
                The Roman Catholic Church claims that oral Tradition is a second channel of divine revelation, inspired by God, and is equally as authoritative as Scripture. The Roman Catholic Church also makes the claim that this was the view held by the Fathers of the early church. By what authority can the RCC make such claims about themselves? It should surprise no one that the RCC makes these unfounded claims for herself, by herself.
                By Christ's and Apostolic Authority, the Early Church and its traditions were founded and held onto by those who love Christ and His Body, the Church. Evangelicals (who detest Apostolic Tradition) have generally replaced Christ's Church by a Concert and University Lecture, and dare to call that a "church".

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
                  So true, and sadly enough the majority of Roman Catholics don't even know Scripture, much less oral tradition versus Holy Scripture.
                  I wonder how many Roman Catholics (practicing or not) even vaguely realize that Scripture never teaches that tradition is inspired, and that in all actuality Scripture gives us numerous warnings against tradition.
                  no, they don't. they just blindly believe what the RCC /CC teaches is according to scripture and that their ST is also. They most often quote verses out of context, so their meaning isn't in alignment with what scripture does say. If they knew what it was saying, they might be able to tell, that the ST taught by the RCC/CC isn't scriptural.

                  here's 3 of them -

                  Col 2.8

                  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


                  1 Peter 1.18

                  Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;


                  Mark 7.13

                  Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


                  "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                  The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
                    The Roman Catholic Church claims that oral Tradition is a second channel of divine revelation, inspired by God, and is equally as authoritative as Scripture. The Roman Catholic Church also makes the claim that this was the view held by the Fathers of the early church. By what authority can the RCC make such claims about themselves? It should surprise no one that the RCC makes these unfounded claims for herself, by herself.
                    2 timothy 3

                    8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith.

                    Who is Jannes and Jambres?

                    Maybe you can pop open your old testament and show us who are these two?

                    Oral Tradition can explain, ask the Jews.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by UnionofGrace&Nature View Post
                      By Christ's and Apostolic Authority, the Early Church and its traditions were founded and held onto by those who love Christ and His Body, the Church. Evangelicals (who detest Apostolic Tradition) have generally replaced Christ's Church by a Concert and University Lecture, and dare to call that a "church".
                      Sorry union, but the absolute truth that you fear to reveal is that the early Fathers rejected the teaching of an apostolic oral Tradition independent of Scripture as a gnostic heresy. It was the Gnostics who first claimed that an oral tradition, independent of Scripture, had been passed down from the Apostles. As far as the early Fathers were concerned, the apostolic Tradition was embodied and preserved in Scripture alone.
                      RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mica View Post
                        no, they don't. they just blindly believe what the RCC /CC teaches is according to scripture and that their ST is also. They most often quote verses out of context, so their meaning isn't in alignment with what scripture does say. If they knew what it was saying, they might be able to tell, that the ST taught by the RCC/CC isn't scriptural.

                        here's 3 of them -

                        Col 2.8

                        Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


                        1 Peter 1.18

                        Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;


                        Mark 7.13

                        Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

                        Thanks for the great Scripture quotes warning against tradition, Mica!
                        RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by utilyan View Post

                          2 timothy 3

                          8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith.

                          Who is Jannes and Jambres?

                          Maybe you can pop open your old testament and show us who are these two?

                          Oral Tradition can explain, ask the Jews.
                          How is one to know what the Apostles taught orally?
                          RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post

                            How is one to know what the Apostles taught orally?
                            You mean what the Church taught orally? We are inclusive to the the Apostles and Jesus. Ask the Church.


                            Now if don't think the Catholic church is THE CHURCH you shouldn't throw away the baby with the bathwater. The Apostles, Jesus, The Church all in unity with the holy spirit.


                            Do some homework, Using the bible alone I want you to find out Who is Jannes and Jambres and prove it biblically.



                            There is more logic in pointing at me and saying you are not the true church than divorcing the church from Jesus and the apostles.

                            The church is not a group putting in a job application with God.

                            The church was started by Jesus Christ it is his official group his Christian institution.

                            IT cannot be invented, I can't start up a group and say ok lets act like these guys in the bible.

                            It can ONLY be discovered. Jesus Christ put together, blessed, even prayed to protect his institution, It is around now and forever

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No, union, I do not mean what the 'church taught orally'. I mean exactly what I said - "How is one to know what the Apostles taught orally?"
                              FYI, what the Apostles taught has been handed down to us in the Scriptures. And according to ecf Irenaeus, these Scriptures are to be the ground and pillar of our faith. The historical situation which prompted Irenaeus' words is important too. He was writing against Gnostics who claimed to have access to an oral tradition handed down from the Apostles which was independent of the written Scriptures. Irenaeus and Tertullian as well, explicitly repudiate this concept. They taught that the bishops of the Church were in the direct line of succession from the Apostles and were faithful to the Apostolic teaching which they proclaimed orally but that their teaching could be validated Scripturally.
                              RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

                              Comment

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