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Unam Sanctam isn't binding on all the faithful,

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  • tester
    started a topic Unam Sanctam isn't binding on all the faithful,

    Unam Sanctam isn't binding on all the faithful,


    According Catholics: is this true?

    "Unam Sanctam
    isn't binding on all the faithful"

    According to Catholics: is this infallible?

    ""Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.""

  • Calsgal
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeT View Post

    Then there must be a reason, other than spite, why Jesus Christ said, "Therefore I say to you, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone, shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it shall grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they knew that he spoke of them. And seeking to lay hands on him, they feared the multitudes: because they held him as a prophet."[Matthew 21:43-46].

    Have you fallen on the stones, or has a large stone fallen on you, have you broken something? Do you have that ground down feeling, like a heavy weight is upon you, grinding to dust? Re-enter the Kingdom of God where life is real.

    JoeT

    .
    We are back where we started... Jesus was the stone the builders rejected ..so Jesus took the gospel to the gentile nations... This was Gods plan... The elect are the Israel of God.. it is not a church or a denomination, or a country

    Matthew Henry Commentary
    21:33-46 This parable plainly sets forth the sin and ruin of the Jewish nation; and what is spoken to convict them, is spoken to caution all that enjoy the privileges of the outward church. As men treat God's people, they would treat Christ himself, if he were with them. How can we, if faithful to his cause, expect a favourable reception from a wicked world, or from ungodly professors of Christianity! And let us ask ourselves, whether we who have the vineyard and all its advantages, render fruits in due season, as a people, as a family, or as separate persons. Our Saviour, in his question, declares that the Lord of the vineyard will come, and when he comes he will surely destroy the wicked. The chief priests and the elders were the builders, and they would not admit his doctrine or laws; they threw him aside as a despised stone. But he who was rejected by the Jews, was embraced by the Gentiles. Christ knows who will bring forth gospel fruits in the use of gospel means. The unbelief of sinners will be their ruin. But God has many ways of restraining the remainders of wrath, as he has of making that which breaks out redound to his praise. May Christ become more and more precious to our souls, as the firm Foundation and Cornerstone of his church. May we be willing to follow him, though despised and hated for his sake.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeT
    replied
    Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

    The Kingdom was taken from the Jews and given to those that believe... Those that believe form the Israel of God ..In Jesus there is neither Jew nor Greek.
    Then there must be a reason, other than spite, why Jesus Christ said, "Therefore I say to you, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone, shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it shall grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they knew that he spoke of them. And seeking to lay hands on him, they feared the multitudes: because they held him as a prophet."[Matthew 21:43-46].

    Have you fallen on the stones, or has a large stone fallen on you, have you broken something? Do you have that ground down feeling, like a heavy weight is upon you, grinding to dust? Re-enter the Kingdom of God where life is real.

    JoeT

    .


    Leave a comment:


  • Calsgal
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeT View Post

    Are were the gentiles given a new Kingdom a new Israel or was the Kingdom that once existed handed over to them to form a new Israel?

    JoeT
    The Kingdom was taken from the Jews and given to those that believe... Those that believe form the Israel of God ..In Jesus there is neither Jew nor greek

    Justin Martyr .....

    "the true spiritual Israel" Jesus Christ ... is the new law, and the new covenant, and the expectation of those who out of every people wait for the good things of God. For the true spiritual Israel, and the descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham (who in uncircumcision was approved of and blessed by God on account of his faith, and called the father of many nations), are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ. Circa AD 160. English translation from the Dialogue with Trypho xi, in The Ante-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church, eds. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, vol. 1 (Eerdmans, repr. 1987), p. 200.


    Martin Luther
    Lectures on Galatians, 1535
    . "Upon the Israel of God." Here Paul attacks the false apostles and the Jews, who boasted about their fathers, their election, the Law, etc. (Rom. 9:4-5). It is as though he were saying: "The Israel of God are not the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel but those who, with Abraham the believer (3:9), believe in the promises of God now disclosed in Christ, whether they are Jews or Gentiles."
    English translation from Lectures on Galatians, 1519, in volume 27 of Luther's Works, ed. Jaroslav Pelikan (Saint Louis: Concordia, 1964),

    Leave a comment:


  • tester
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeT View Post

    The Pope is the Vicar of Christ. As such he is due honor and respect for his office over all the Church of Jesus Christ [Cf. Mathew 16:-18]. We hold that the Pope's office is expressed in John 21:16-17, that is the Pope is to give sustenance to his flock in both his leadership and teaching. You should accept the Pope's teaching on morals and faith because he is speaking for Christ as guided by the Holy Spirit.



    Luke 10:16, we hear Christ through the Church and her earthly head, the Vicar of Christ, the Pope.

    Cover-up what? Should we cover up the errors found in Protestantism, reformism, and Evangelicalism? Or, maybe we should cover-up the heretical nature of Protestantism, reformism, and Evangelicalism?
    You should be able to answer this one, you're sect is the expert on knowing the mind of God.

    JoeT
    The Pope is the Vicar of Christ. As such he is due honor and respect for his office over all the Church of Jesus Christ [Cf. Mathew 16:-18]. We hold that the Pope's office is expressed in John 21:16-17, that is the Pope is to give sustenance to his flock in both his leadership and teaching. You should accept the Pope's teaching on morals and faith because he is speaking for Christ as guided by the Holy Spirit.
    Luke 10:16, we hear Christ through the Church and her earthly head, the Vicar of Christ, the Pope.

    ----------
    >>circular logic: the Church says the Church is correct
    _


    Cover-up what? Should we cover up the errors found in Protestantism, reformism, and Evangelicalism? Or, maybe we should cover-up the heretical nature of Protestantism, reformism, and Evangelicalism?
    ________

    >>covering up ongoing criminal and ongoing pedophile behaviors
    nice try, but a failure to change the subject
    -------------

    You should be able to answer this one, you're sect is the expert on knowing the mind of God.
    ----------
    >>> mis-characterization or outright lie: who has ever claimed to be an expert on knowing the mind of God?

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeT
    replied
    Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

    Gentiles
    Are were the gentiles given a new Kingdom a new Israel or was the Kingdom that once existed handed over to them to form a new Israel?

    JoeT

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeT
    replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post

    . . . now why should we accept what [your] Pope has to say?
    The Pope is the Vicar of Christ. As such he is due honor and respect for his office over all the Church of Jesus Christ [Cf. Mathew 16:-18]. We hold that the Pope's office is expressed in John 21:16-17, that is the Pope is to give sustenance to his flock in both his leadership and teaching. You should accept the Pope's teaching on morals and faith because he is speaking for Christ as guided by the Holy Spirit.

    How do you JoeT (and other Catholics) discern is the Pope is correct?
    Luke 10:16, we hear Christ through the Church and her earthly head, the Vicar of Christ, the Pope.

    will there be healing or a cover -up?
    Cover-up what? Should we cover up the errors found in Protestantism, reformism, and Evangelicalism? Or, maybe we should cover-up the heretical nature of Protestantism, reformism, and Evangelicalism?
    will there be a miracle or criminal charges?
    You should be able to answer this one, you're sect is the expert on knowing the mind of God.

    JoeT

    Leave a comment:


  • Nondenom40
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeT View Post

    Were not the Twelve part of the seventy-two? And were not the seventy-two not pilgrim Church? Did they not represent the Church? If not who did they represent? How many others were part of the Body of Christ? What you really mean to say is that Jesus Christ wouldn't, couldn't, or shouldn't do that, right?

    JoeT
    Youre simply trying to read into scripture that which is not there. The text is plain, clear and unambiguous. It plainly says 70, Joe says 12. No church, yet but Joe says church. No pope or papacy anywhere in the entirety of scripture yet Joe says pope. Who should we believe Joe, you or the clear text of the bible? Or has your church also redefined 70 to mean 12? Now theres some fuzzy math.

    Leave a comment:


  • tester
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeT View Post

    "He that heareth you [the Twelve that represent the Church], heareth me; and he that despiseth you [
    the Twelve that represent the Church]
    , despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me." [Luke 10:16]

    Hear the Pope, else we know that 'he that despises the Church despises Christ.' Do you need more?

    But obviously, you say, this doesn't mean what it says - if not why not?

    JoeT
    FIRST : your verse is not talking about the Twelve
    verse 1"After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go."

    it is in chapter 9 where the twelve are sent
    9:1 And he called the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases,
    2 and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal.

    SECOND
    the Twelve and the Seventy Two performed miracles
    10:9 Heal the sick in it and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’
    10:17 The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!

    it works like this:
    perform miracles in the name of God
    argue from the Hebrews Scriptures about the coming of Christ
    accept what the Twelve and the Seventy-Two say.

    now why should we accept what you Pope has to says?

    How do you JoeT (and other Catholics) discern is the Pope is correct?

    will there be healing or a cover -up?
    will there be a miracle or criminal charges?



    Leave a comment:


  • JoeT
    replied
    Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

    There was no "church" until Pentecost
    That's true, the Church did not come into her own until Pentecost. Of course her master and groom still walked the earth. However, Christ spent His entire ministry taking His claim as the Messias, building up His Body, giving light to Truth. Hence, The Church didn't just invent herself 50 days after the crucifixion. Rather the Church's beginning was in Christ.
    Else, there would be no point in Sacred Scriptures. In that regard there was nothing particularly outstanding in the story of Christ, except His Divinity and His humanity along with laying the foundations of the Church, the Kingdom of God.

    A lot of good 'Joe's walk the earth, then and now, many good and innocent Joe's have been persecuted and crucified - take yesterday with Judge Kavanaugh for example - if left to the Democrats they would have crucified him on the spot. Remember, Christ remains with us, walks among us in the Kingdom, and guides us as our Lord.

    JoeT

    Leave a comment:


  • Calsgal
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeT View Post

    What is the other nation?

    "Therefore I say to you, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you (the Jew), and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof." [Matthew 21:43]

    JoeT
    Gentiles

    Leave a comment:


  • Calsgal
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeT View Post

    Were not the Twelve part of the seventy-two? And were not the seventy-two not pilgrim Church? Did they not represent the Church? If not who did they represent? How many others were part of the Body of Christ? What you really mean to say is that Jesus Christ wouldn't, couldn't, or shouldn't do that, right?

    JoeT
    There was no "church" until Pentecost

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeT
    replied
    Originally posted by mica View Post
    do you even know what you are trying to ask? doesn't sound like it. might try reading Matthew.
    I suggest that you read Matthew in the light of the Catholic Church. Much better.

    JoeT

    Leave a comment:


  • mica
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeT View Post
    What is the other nation?

    "Therefore I say to you, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you (the Jew), and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof." [Matthew 21:43]
    JoeT
    what is it saying in context?

    how about vs 42?

    42
    Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures,
    The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?



    Leave a comment:


  • mica
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeT View Post

    Were not the Twelve part of the seventy-two? And were not the seventy-two not pilgrim Church? Did they not represent the Church? If not who did they represent? How many others were part of the Body of Christ? What you really mean to say is that Jesus Christ wouldn't, couldn't, or shouldn't do that, right?

    JoeT
    do you even know what you are trying to ask? doesn't sound like it. might try reading Matthew.

    Leave a comment:

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