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Roman Catholic Priesthood

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  • Raynebeau
    started a topic Roman Catholic Priesthood

    Roman Catholic Priesthood

    Did Jesus Christ institute a New Testament priesthood?

  • Geralt_De_Sales
    replied
    [QUOTE=Raynebeau;n5380852]

    GDS - 'Believers' are those who are consecrated to and habitually engage in divine service.

    That literally sounds like ordained priests. Just sayin'.

    [QUOTE=RaynebeauChrist would not have instituted a special class of individuals to a new priesthood because that function of mediation has been abrogated since He, Himself, made a perfect sacrifice for sin, becoming the only mediator between God and man. [/QUOTE]

    Yes, Jesus is the only mediator between God and Man. However, the new priesthood is not a form of mediation between men and God.

    1547 The ministerial or hierarchical priesthood of bishops and priests, and the common priesthood of all the faithful participate, "each in its own proper way, in the one priesthood of Christ." While being "ordered one to another," they differ essentially. In what sense? While the common priesthood of the faithful is exercised by the unfolding of baptismal grace --a life of faith, hope, and charity, a life according to the Spirit--, the ministerial priesthood is at the service of the common priesthood. It is directed at the unfolding of the baptismal grace of all Christians. The ministerial priesthood is a means by which Christ unceasingly builds up and leads his Church. For this reason it is transmitted by its own sacrament, the sacrament of Holy Orders.
    The ministerial priesthood serves the Church. They are not our mediators, as any one of us can go to Christ himself. However, they are our teachers and shepherds, as Paul and Timothy and others were to the first Christians.

    Originally posted by Raynebeau
    The idea of a NT human mediating priesthood is not biblical. It undermines the biblical teaching of the exclusive nature of the person of Christ as priest and mediator between God and man.
    I strongly disagree. If you look at the writings of Paul, he clearly argues that the common priesthood and the ministerial priesthood share in the ministry of Christ:

    2 Corinthians 5:18-20:
    18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself,[d] not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us. 20 So we are ambassadors for Christ, since God is making his appeal through us; we entreat you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

    Philippians 3:10
    I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the sharing of his sufferings by becoming like him in his death,

    The priests do not offer new sacrifices, as there is only one Sacrifice constantly made on our behalf.

    Leave a comment:


  • Raynebeau
    replied
    Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post

    Because they're a participation of His priesthood, where he receives our confessions and forgives us for our sins?

    By the way, we should all agree that Jesus did institute thepriesthood of believers at the very least.
    GDS - 'Believers' are those who are consecrated to and habitually engage in divine service. Christ would not have instituted a special class of individuals to a new priesthood because that function of mediation has been abrogated since He, Himself, made a perfect sacrifice for sin, becoming the only mediator between God and man. The idea of a NT human mediating priesthood is not biblical. It undermines the biblical teaching of the exclusive nature of the person of Christ as priest and mediator between God and man.

    Leave a comment:


  • Raynebeau
    replied
    Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post

    Quoting random priests doesn't disprove the Church. Arius was ordained too, and he was wrong.

    But to add to that, ordination (or the laying on of hands) and Jesus' conferring the forgiveness of sins to the Apostles are both seen in Scripture.
    It is clear from the NT that there is a concept of ordination for Christian ministers - the public recognition and setting aside of an individual specifically called by God to assume the role of a pastor or elder. It is the pubic recognition by the Church of a gift sovereignly given by God and independent of any work of man. But such a role has nothing to do with an exclusive priesthood GDS, for the NT teaches that all Christians have been set apart as a spiritual priesthood in the kingdom of God. Read what Peter says:
    "You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light." 1 Peter 2:5; Cf, Rev. 1:6

    Leave a comment:


  • Raynebeau
    replied
    Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post

    They're not "passed on". They're shared. When a priest retires, he still has his faculties (or functions). Priests continue to share in the same priesthood of the High Priest Jesus.
    And all of their functions come from the Bishops, who received them from the Apostles and from Christ Himself.

    We agree, He does continue forever, which is why we are now forever a royal priesthood. Because his priesthood doesn't pass away, neither does that of His Church.

    You misunderstand how the Church views the priesthood:
    Sadly, you gravely misunderstand how Christ views the Church.

    Leave a comment:


  • Raynebeau
    replied
    Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

    Are you sure about that?

    "And all the apostles of the Lord are priests, who do inherit here neither lands nor houses, but serve God and the altar continually." Irenaeus of Lyons, Book 4, chapter 8, para 3. (120-180AD).

    But one of many.
    Here's a simple little clue for you to help you better understand the truth.

    Scripture is the Word of God.

    Irenaeus is erroneous.

    Leave a comment:


  • Calsgal
    replied
    Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

    Yes he did.

    Matthew 12:1-6, "At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the sabbath; his disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. When the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the sabbath.” He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him or his companions to eat, but only for the priests.Or have you not read in the law that on the sabbath the priests in the temple break the sabbath and yet are guiltless? I tell you, something greater than the temple is here."
    You do realize Jesus was living under the OT law and the priesthood He references here is the Jewish priesthood (the line of Levi) the type Jesus perfectly fulfilled and was then fully destroyed in 70 AD by God

    Leave a comment:


  • mica
    replied
    Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post
    Are you sure about that?

    "And all the apostles of the Lord are priests, who do inherit here neither lands nor houses, but serve God and the altar continually." Irenaeus of Lyons, Book 4, chapter 8, para 3. (120-180AD).

    But one of many.
    adding to scripture?

    all of those who are born again are His priesthood on earth, serving the purpose of our High Priest, but not as in the OT (that's gone) or as in the RCC/CC (made up). There are no more sacrifices to be made. However, we baptize, anoint, pray the blessing over the bread and juice, and teach His word and otherwise minister to the body of Christ.


    Leave a comment:


  • mica
    replied
    Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

    The addition of the NT to the OT writings is a Tradition not taught by Scripture, Jesus, or his apostles. Ooops did you forget about that?
    yes, it is. Jesus as a Jew, held to the law. What changed toward the end of Matthew (and each of the gospels)?

    why did Jesus and the Apostles continue to live as Jews until - what point?

    what does testament mean to you?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark Rome
    replied
    Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post

    And how come for the first 2 centuries there is no mention of a priesthood in the writing of the church Fathers?
    Are you sure about that?

    "And all the apostles of the Lord are priests, who do inherit here neither lands nor houses, but serve God and the altar continually." Irenaeus of Lyons, Book 4, chapter 8, para 3. (120-180AD).

    But one of many.

    Leave a comment:


  • Raynebeau
    replied
    Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

    Yes he did.

    Matthew 12:1-6, "At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the sabbath; his disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. When the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the sabbath.” He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him or his companions to eat, but only for the priests.Or have you not read in the law that on the sabbath the priests in the temple break the sabbath and yet are guiltless? I tell you, something greater than the temple is here."
    If He did set up a NT priesthood, how come there is not mention in the NT of priests in the early church? And how come for the first 2 centuries there is no mention of a priesthood in the writing of the church Fathers? The 2 major offices that are mentioned in the NT for the oversight of the Church are that of elder and deacon. An overseer is designated as one who is called of God to teach and rule, and a deacon to minister in a practical serving capacity. There are two terms used for overseer in the NT - presbuteros and episcopos - which are translated elder and bishop respectively, but are used interchangeably. Paul and Peter both use the terms "elder" and "bishop" to describe the same office. Therefore, in the NT "bishop" and "elder" are interchangeable terms used for the same office (responsible for ruling and teaching). The word presbuteros describes the position, while episopos describes the function, as one who rules or oversees. The NT does not use the Greek term for priest, hiercus, to refer to an office of Christian ministry.

    Leave a comment:


  • Calsgal
    replied
    Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

    Wow. That's bizarre and false doctrine if ever I heard one. How can you really believe in that? No wonder nonCC's find justification to treat anyone not 'saved' as if they were Satan himself.
    Actually we treat the unsaved as people in need of the gospel ...

    God is the God of Satan too... God uses Satan to achieve HIS ends...

    We are not duelists ..we do not have 2 coequal gods

    Satan is a creature of God and remains subject to Him and uses Satan for His eternal good purposes


    Leave a comment:


  • Raynebeau
    replied
    Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

    Yes he did.

    Matthew 12:1-6, "At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the sabbath; his disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. When the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the sabbath.” He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him or his companions to eat, but only for the priests.Or have you not read in the law that on the sabbath the priests in the temple break the sabbath and yet are guiltless? I tell you, something greater than the temple is here."
    rldl - Jesus could not have instituted a new order of human priesthood through the disciples because Scripture teaches that His priesthood has displaced the old order. Christ now exercises an exclusive and eternal priesthood, the prerogatives of which cannot be transferred. Furthermore rldl, the Scriptures teach that men now have direct access to God through Jesus Christ. Man no longer needs a human priesthood or sacrifices for He has become our sacrifice and our priest. Man does not need a human priesthood when we have a divine priest, Jesus Christ, to whom we can go to at any time because He has made the perfect sacrifice and gives us direct access into the presence of God.

    Leave a comment:


  • rldlolbeding
    replied
    Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post

    You mean like submission to those who make up Tradition not taught by Scripture, Jesus, or his apostles?
    The addition of the NT to the OT writings is a Tradition not taught by Scripture, Jesus, or his apostles. Ooops did you forget about that?

    Leave a comment:


  • rldlolbeding
    replied
    Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post
    1Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
    1Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

    No mention of RCC priesthood setting up confessional boxes to hear sins and hand out penance.
    I believe the OP asked, "Did Jesus Christ institute a New Testament priesthood?"

    Leave a comment:

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