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Infallible interpretation of verses

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  • ramcam2
    started a topic Infallible interpretation of verses

    Infallible interpretation of verses

    these are the fifteen verses infallibly interpreted by the Catholic Church.

    (1) Romans 5:12 ("By one man sin entered into this world") refers to original sin.

    (2) I Corinthians 4:7 ("What hast thou that thou hast not received") proves divine grace to be a sheer gift of God.

    (3) Isaiah 7:14 ("Behold a virgin shall be with child, etc." [sic]) must be regarded as prophetic of a Redeemer to come.

    (4) Genesis 3:15 ("I will put enmity between thee and the woman"), and Luke 1:28 ("Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee") contain at least implicitly the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

    (5) Philippians 2:6 ("Christ Jesus, being in the form of God, did not prize being equal with God, etc." [sic]) refers to the existence of the person of Christ as the Second Divine Person of the Holy Trinity before He became man in the Incarnation.

    (6) Matthew 16:16-19 ("Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church") and John 21:15-17 ("Feed my lambs . . . Feed my sheep") contain the doctrine of Papal Supremacy.

    (7) Luke 22:32 ("I have prayed for thee that thy faith fail not and do thou . . . confirm thy brethren") must be interpreted as providing a basis for the doctrine of Papal Infallibility.

    (8) John 3:5 ("Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God") shows the necessity of the Sacrament of Baptism with water.

    (9) Luke 22:19 and I Corinthians 11:24, recording our Lord's words at the Last Supper: "Do this for a commemoration of me", indicate the institution of the Sacrament of Holy Orders, the apostles being ordained as priests to offer the Sacrifice of the Mass or Holy Eucharist.

    (10) Matthew 26:26-28; Mark 14:22-24; Luke 22:19-20; I Corinthians 11:23-29, demand the literal and not merely a symbolical interpretation of our Lord's words at the Last Supper: "This is my body," "This is my blood," so that we must hold they teach the Real Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist or Blessed Sacrament.

    (11) Malachi 1:11 ("From the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles; and in every place there is sacrifice") is a prediction of the Sacrifice of the Mass.

    (12) John 6:54-57 ("unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood") does not require Communion in both kinds instead of under the form of bread only.

    (13) Matthew 18:18 ("Whatsoever you shall loose upon earth shall be loosed also in heaven") and John 20:23 ("Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them") prove the Sacrament of Penance and the power of priests to forgive sins in confession.

    (14) James 5:14 ("Is any man sick . . . let him bring in the priests of the Church . . . anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord") teaches the existence of the Sacrament of Extreme Unction.

    (15) Deuteronomy 6:5 and Matthew 22:37 ("Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and souls and mind and strength") do not require a love so spiritual and out of this world as to exclude all human emotional feelings and desires based on devotional sentiments.


    For the non-Catholics, can you list the verses officially interpreted by your church?

  • Curious Joe
    replied
    Originally posted by highrigger View Post

    He may be a heretic to your church and to you but His history is excellent and his reputation is excellent. His Pulitzer Prize proves that.

    That is why I use him a lot on this forum. I want a historian with a good reputation for history. The other top historians agree with him.

    JohnR
    So what? He is a self-professed heretic, and the bias in his works on the church is well-known and documented. The quality or renown of his work otherwise does not excuse that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Curious Joe
    replied
    Originally posted by highrigger View Post

    Almost all of the top historians Protestant and Catholic are in agreement on the history issues we have discussed. . You are out of line with all of them

    That is what makes me sure they are right and you are wrong.

    JohnR
    Wow, that's really something, John, how you came up with that ...

    Have you seen Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

    "Amazing! Every word of what you just said ... was wrong!" ~ Luke Skywalker

    Leave a comment:


  • highrigger
    replied
    Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

    He's a self-professed heretic, so you're right in that my opinion of him - shared by many - doesn't bother him.
    He may be a heretic to your church and to you but His history is excellent and his reputation is excellent. His Pulitzer Prize proves that.

    That is why I use him a lot on this forum. I want a historian with a good reputation for history. The other top historians agree with him.

    JohnR

    Leave a comment:


  • highrigger
    replied
    Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

    How are you sure, John?
    Almost all of the top historians Protestant and Catholic are in agreement on the history issues we have discussed. . You are out of line with all of them

    That is what makes me sure they are right and you are wrong.

    JohnR

    Leave a comment:


  • Curious Joe
    replied
    Originally posted by highrigger View Post
    Gary Wills is an excellent historian who has won the Pulitzer Prize for history. Most of his books are best sellers. You may demean him all you want.

    He does not let you bother him I assure you.
    He's a self-professed heretic, so you're right in that my opinion of him - shared by many - doesn't bother him.

    Leave a comment:


  • Curious Joe
    replied
    Originally posted by highrigger View Post
    I am sure they know more than you in fact.
    How are you sure, John?

    Leave a comment:


  • highrigger
    replied
    Originally posted by utilyan View Post

    Show us a teaching biblical or catechism that authority is from "EXPERTS",

    Rather then the Bishops and magisterium.
    I often provide the opinions of history and bible experts. Go back and look. You seem to always disagree.

    JohnR

    Leave a comment:


  • Curious Joe
    replied
    Originally posted by highrigger View Post

    I am sure that modern historians know more than people of Wesley's time, even Wesley himself.
    Sure, that must be true. They didn't have the internet back then ...

    Leave a comment:


  • Curious Joe
    replied
    Originally posted by highrigger View Post


    The Donatist Church was huge, flourishing, wealthy, and deeply rooted. Even after a long
    bout of imperial persecution, inspired by Augustine, the Donatists were still able to produce
    nearly 300 bishops for the final attempt at compromise at Carthage in 411. Thereafter, in the course
    of two decades before Vandals overran the littoral, the back of the Donatist church was broken by force.

    He (Augustine) thought heretics should be examined 'not by stretching them on the rack. not by scorching
    them with flames, or furrowing their flesh with iron claws, but by beating them with rods'.
    Paul Johnson, Catholic, A History of Christianity, p 116

    "Why not? He (Augustine) he would ask, If the State used such methods for its own miserable purposes,
    was not the Church entitled to do the same and more for its own far greater ones?" He not only accepted,
    he became the theorist of persecution; and his defenses were later to be those on which all defenses
    of the Inquisition rested."
    Paul Johnson, A History of Christianity, p116

    Thanks for the opportunity to show this again. All Catholics need to see it. Ask some more.

    JohnR
    Once again, John, where's the evidence that Augustine tortured anyone? This entry from your "cut & paste" library doesn't prove mention anything about him actually torturing anyone. Still waiting ...

    Leave a comment:


  • highrigger
    replied
    Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

    John, I know a lot about your ecclesial community, as has been demonstrated on numerous occasions.

    When citing from UMC material, Wesley's works or scholarly sources about Methodism and Wesleyan tradition, your usual response is "so what?". You've even plainly stated that you do not hold Wesley to be an "expert". You hold the likes of Garry Wills in higher esteem that the progenitor of your own denomination.

    You have no case ...
    I am sure that modern historians know more than people of Wesley's time, even Wesley himself. I am sure they know more than you in fact.

    Gary Wills is an excellent historian who has won the Pulitzer Prize for history. Most of his books are best sellers. You may demean him all you want.

    He does not let you bother him I assure you.

    JohnR

    Leave a comment:


  • highrigger
    replied
    Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

    That's what it is, by definition, even according to the citation you made.

    Embarrass yourself again, John.
    So it means nothing to consider? I wonder why he went to all that work to earn it from his church.

    I am so embarrassed. I thought it was useful. Silly me.

    JohnR

    Leave a comment:


  • Curious Joe
    replied
    Originally posted by highrigger View Post

    I broke away from no one at all. You know very little about my church. You make silly claims and never back them up with anything.

    Same ole. Same ole.

    You help me make my case. as usual.

    JohnR
    John, I know a lot about your ecclesial community, as has been demonstrated on numerous occasions.

    When citing from UMC material, Wesley's works or scholarly sources about Methodism and Wesleyan tradition, your usual response is "so what?". You've even plainly stated that you do not hold Wesley to be an "expert". You hold the likes of Garry Wills in higher esteem that the progenitor of your own denomination.

    You have no case ...

    Leave a comment:


  • highrigger
    replied
    Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

    The Church of England broke communion with the Church of Rome.

    Your denomination broke from the Church of England.

    You individually espouse beliefs that are fundamentally contrary to Methodism, while still calling yourself a Methodist.

    So yes, you broke away from the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church three times over.
    Not so, but if I were part of it I would indeed break away. I want the true teachings of Jesus, not made up dogmas.

    I call myself a Methodist because I am.so. You are the only one to say I do not fit in.

    JohnR

    Leave a comment:


  • highrigger
    replied
    Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

    We're all still waiting for the evidence that Saint Augustine tortured anyone. When can we expect that, John?

    The Donatist Church was huge, flourishing, wealthy, and deeply rooted. Even after a long
    bout of imperial persecution, inspired by Augustine, the Donatists were still able to produce
    nearly 300 bishops for the final attempt at compromise at Carthage in 411. Thereafter, in the course
    of two decades before Vandals overran the littoral, the back of the Donatist church was broken by force.

    He (Augustine) thought heretics should be examined 'not by stretching them on the rack. not by scorching
    them with flames, or furrowing their flesh with iron claws, but by beating them with rods'.
    Paul Johnson, Catholic, A History of Christianity, p 116

    "Why not? He (Augustine) he would ask, If the State used such methods for its own miserable purposes,
    was not the Church entitled to do the same and more for its own far greater ones?" He not only accepted,
    he became the theorist of persecution; and his defenses were later to be those on which all defenses
    of the Inquisition rested."
    Paul Johnson, A History of Christianity, p116

    Thanks for the opportunity to show this again. All Catholics need to see it. Ask some more.

    JohnR

    Leave a comment:

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