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Apostasy

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post
    It's a simple question: When did the Christian Church apostatize and introduce the pagan beliefs that became Catholicism?
    It never did apostatize.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot

    "There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." Betsy ten Boom

    "God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love." John Paul II

    ’Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ One of the greatest responses in all of scripture.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post
      It's a simple question: When did the Christian Church apostatize and introduce the pagan beliefs that became Catholicism?
      is this the definition of apostasy you are using?


      "is the formal disaffiliation from, or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. wiki

      apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; -EWTN

      Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary defines the word “apostasy” as:
      An abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed; a total desertion of departure from one’s faith, principles, or party; esp., the renunciation of a religious faith;
      Christianity has never apostatized:
      if it did : it would cease to be Christian


      the apostates can break off from Christianity:
      They can still call themselves Christians
      Apostates usually do



      as to when? apostasy started to enter early on in Christianity..

      the Church in Ephesus:
      I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first.5 Consider how far you have fallen!

      the Church in Pergamum
      There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality.

      the Church in Sardis
      you are dead.

      Last edited by tester; 07-10-18, 07:41 PM.
      One of the ekklēsia

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

        Again it's my opinion your church never was on the right track to begin with. It's always been heretical. And in your case it was a progression. There was no Joseph Smith or Mary Baker Eddy to say hey we're here. I don't need to know the exact date your church started or by whom. I just know it's teachings have no place in the Bible.
        That's pretty much the universal foundation of all bigotry. 'The facts don't matter. My opinion is all that matters and I hate you.'

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

          The Catholic Church started in 33AD. We have the pedigree going back to the Apostles. When did your church start?
          No it didn't and no you don't.
          Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

            It never did apostatize.
            It was never christian. There was nothing to apostatize from. Its completely made up.
            Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

              That's pretty much the universal foundation of all bigotry. 'The facts don't matter. My opinion is all that matters and I hate you.'
              I've been asking for facts for years, none have been forthcoming. In fact, i've asked for facts just today from one of your own and he made the same back handed comment. Whose the *****? The one that asks for facts or the one that makes all these claims and never supports them?
              Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

                I've been asking for facts for years, none have been forthcoming. In fact, i've asked for facts just today from one of your own and he made the same back handed comment. Whose the *****? The one that asks for facts or the one that makes all these claims and never supports them?
                Hang on. You are expecting us to provide you with facts about our supposed apostasy? That's beyond belief. You've made the claim. If you have no facts to back it up... that amounts to bigotry.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

                  The Catholic Church started in 33AD. We have the pedigree going back to the Apostles. When did your church start?
                  This period of the Church began 33 AD, the period before 33 AD is also the time of the Church but very limited. Then there is the reality that the bases which we see the whole Church in the Holy Trinity of persons, in the personhood of God.

                  The Orthodox Church is evangelical, but not Protestant. It is orthodox, but not Jewish. It is catholic, but not Roman. It isn't non-denominational - it is pre-denominational. It has believed, taught, preserved, defended and died for the Faith of the Apostles since the Day of Pentecost 2000 years ago.
                  In accordance with the Apostolic faith delivered to us by tradition from the Fathers, I have delivered the tradition, without inventing anything extraneous to it. What I have learned, that I inscribed, comfortably with the Holy Scriptures

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

                    The last 10 years here. The history of your church, it's offices, it's practices and it's beliefs.
                    That is not proof. Please provide the year and the founder. Then provide the names of the leaders of what you believe was the "True church" and a source that we can read their writings so we can see their orthodoxy.

                    Blessings
                    May the most holy, most sacred, most adorable, most incomprehensible and ineffable Name of God be forever praised, blessed, loved, adored and glorified in Heaven, on Earth, and under the Earth by all the creatures of God and by the Sacred Heart of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar. Amen.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

                      The Catholic Church started in 33AD. We have the pedigree going back to the Apostles. When did your church start?
                      no it didn't. catholics have nothing going back to the apostles, not even their beliefs.

                      as one of His church, it was at Pentecost.



                      "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                      The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

                        The Catholic Church started in 33AD. We have the pedigree going back to the Apostles. When did your church start?
                        Wrong, the RCC Started way before that
                        approx 2000 years earlier

                        Newman in his "Development of Doctrine affirms
                        Quote:
                        That is, we prefer to say,
                        and we think that Scripture bears us out in saying,
                        that from the beginning the Moral Governor of the world
                        has scattered the seeds of truth far and wide over its extent;
                        that these have variously taken root,
                        and grown as in the wilderness, wild plants indeed but living;
                        and hence that, as the inferior animals have tokens of an immaterial {381} principle in them,
                        yet have not souls, so the philosophies and religions of men have their life in certain true ideas,
                        though they are not directly divine.
                        What man is amid the brute creation,
                        such is the Church among the schools of the world ;
                        and as Adam gave names to the animals about him,
                        so has the Church from the first looked round upon the earth,
                        noting and visiting the doctrrines she found there.
                        She began in Chaldea ,

                        and then sojourned among the Canannites,
                        and went down into Egypt, and thence passed into Arabia,
                        till she rested in her own land.
                        Next she encountered the merchants of Tyre,
                        and the wisdom of the East country,
                        and the luxury of Sheba.
                        Then she was carried away to Babylon,
                        and wandered to the schools of Greece.
                        And wherever she went, in trouble or in triumph, still she was a living spirit,
                        the mind and voice of the Most High;
                        sitting in the midst of the doctors,

                        both hearing them and asking them questions;'
                        claiming to herself what they said rightly,
                        correcting their errors, supplying their defects,
                        completing their beginnings,
                        expanding their surmises, and thus gradually
                        by means of them
                        enlarging the range and
                        refining the sense of her own teaching.
                        So far then from her creed being of doubtful credit because it resembles foreign theologies,
                        we even hold that one special way in which Providence
                        has imparted divine knowledge to us has been by enabling her
                        to draw and collect it together out of the world,
                        and, in this sense, as in others,
                        to '**** the milk of the Gentiles and to **** the breast of kings.'

                        John Henry Newman
                        and
                        That {Roman Catholic } Christianity on its rise was in these circumstances of competition and controversy,
                        is sufficiently evident even from a foregoing Chapter:
                        it was surrounded by rites, sects, and philosophies, which contemplated the same questions,
                        sometimes advocated the same truths, and in no slight degree wore the same external appearance.
                        It could not stand still, it could not take its own way, and let them take theirs:
                        they came across its path, and a conflict was inevitable.
                        The very nature of a true philosophy relatively to other systems is to be polemical, eclectic, unitive: {Catholic} Christianity was polemical;
                        it could not but be eclectic; but was it also unitive?
                        Had it the power, while keeping its own identity, of absorbing its antagonists, as Aaron's rod, according to St. Jerome's illustration,
                        devoured the rods of the sorcerers of Egypt?
                        Did it incorporate them into itself, or was it dissolved into them?
                        Did it assimilate them into its own {356} substance, or, keeping its name,
                        was it simply infected by them?
                        In a word, were its developments faithful or corrupt?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post
                          It's a simple question: When did the Christian Church apostatize and introduce the pagan beliefs that became Catholicism?
                          The Christian church has never apostatized. However, the devil has from the beginning sown his tares among the wheat - there you have Catholicism.
                          I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel - which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. (Gal. 1:6-7)
                          So what was it that these perverters of the Gospel did, that was so heinous in Paul's mind? They attempted to reintroduce legalism, i.e. the idea that we have to keep the law in order to be right with God. Does that ring a bell? Catholicism plainly teaches that when we stand before God on judgment day, the cross of Christ avails nothing. What instead matters is what works we have done. That is a perversion of the Gospel.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Johan View Post

                            The Christian church has never apostatized. However, the devil has from the beginning sown his tares among the wheat - there you have Catholicism.
                            I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel - which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. (Gal. 1:6-7)
                            So what was it that these perverters of the Gospel did, that was so heinous in Paul's mind? They attempted to reintroduce legalism, i.e. the idea that we have to keep the law in order to be right with God. Does that ring a bell? Catholicism plainly teaches that when we stand before God on judgment day, the cross of Christ avails nothing. What instead matters is what works we have done. That is a perversion of the Gospel.
                            if paul was referring to the catholic church in galatians, which Christian church did jesus promised the guidance of the holy spirit, the gates of hell will not prevail, and that he will be with her till the end of time?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by tester View Post

                              is this the definition of apostasy you are using?


                              "is the formal disaffiliation from, or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. wiki

                              apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; -EWTN

                              Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary defines the word “apostasy” as:
                              An abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed; a total desertion of departure from one’s faith, principles, or party; esp., the renunciation of a religious faith;
                              Christianity has never apostatized:
                              if it did : it would cease to be Christian


                              the apostates can break off from Christianity:
                              They can still call themselves Christians
                              Apostates usually do



                              as to when? apostasy started to enter early on in Christianity..

                              the Church in Ephesus:
                              I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first.5 Consider how far you have fallen!

                              the Church in Pergamum
                              There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality.

                              the Church in Sardis
                              you are dead.
                              You are dead? What happened to Luther's faith alone teaching? Sounds to me that it fell flat on its face.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                And to the same Church in Ephesus, he says: Repent and do the works you did at first. (Rev. 2:5)

                                So why is Jesus talking about works?

                                Comment

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