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one person two natures

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  • tester
    replied
    Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

    So is your answer that "Author of Life" is an attribute of Christ's human nature?
    it is not a attribute : it is a title of the person
    along with King of Kings, Price of Peace, etc

    Leave a comment:


  • tester
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeT View Post


    Gabriel named Mary's child, not Joseph. As Gabriel is a messenger from God we can assume it was God who originated the name. You might recall, Gabriel said, "Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever." [Luke 31-32]

    JoeT
    Gabriel or Joseph; doesn't matter
    my point stands
    i referring the name of Jesus
    as I said "Jesus descendant of Abraham from the line of David, son of Mary"

    Matt 1:24 When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post
    the death was to his human nature
    the person of Jesus Christ has many titles

    Peter tells us:
    "He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit, in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison"
    Was it a person who was alive that preached to the spirits in prison?
    So is your answer that "Author of Life" is an attribute of Christ's human nature?

    Leave a comment:


  • Thomas
    replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post
    in one sense
    the human nature and everything that make Jesus a huamn ceased to live
    in another
    the divine nature and everything that makes Jesus God did not ceased to live

    The three days the body of Jesus was in the tomb:: would you say the person of Jesus Christ has ceased to live?
    i would not : He was active

    Peter tells us:
    "He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit, in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison"
    It was a person that was alive that preached to the spirits in prison:

    A human nature ceased to live? That is a strange statement - living and dying are part of human nature. Even before the fall, human persons did not have to die, but they could die - they were not immortal, in the Garden. And now, fallen human nature continues to exist, through the long history of persons living and dying. The nature itself does not live or die: persons possessing the nature are capable of living and of dying, and of a resurrection. This mixing of comparisons of persons with natures continues to trouble me.

    The Church teaches that in His human soul he went to Sheol, the place of all the other human dead, where they waited in their souls, and through the Truth He brought to them, the righteous believed and came to faith in Him, and thus could ascend with Him to heaven. This ascension of souls with Him is described by Paul here:
    Eph 4:7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ's gift.
    Eph 4:8 Therefore it is said, "When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men."
    Eph 4:9 (In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
    Eph 4:10 He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)


    This explains the clause in the Apostle's Creed,

    The Apostles Creed
    I believe in God the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
    I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.



    as the Catechism explains:
    Paragraph I. Christ Descended into Hell
    632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was “raised from the dead” presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.<Acts 3:15; Rom 8:11; I Cor 15:20; cf. Heb 13:20> This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Saviour, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.<Cf. I Pt 3:18-19>
    633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.<Cf. Phil 2:10; Acts 2:24; Rev 1:18; Eph 4:9; Pss 6:6; 88:11-13> Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:<Cf. Ps 89:49; I Sam 28:19; Ezek 32:17-32; Lk 16:22-26> “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Saviour in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.”<Roman Catechism 1, 6, 3> Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.<Cf. Council of Rome (745): DS 587; Benedict XII, *** dudum (1341): DS 1011; Clement VI, Super quibusdam (1351): DS 1077; Council of Toledo IV (625): DS 485; Mt 27:52-53>
    634 “The gospel was preached even to the dead.”<I Pt 4:6> The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus’ messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ’s redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.
    635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that “the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.”<Jn 5:25; cf. Mt 12:40; Rom 10:7; Eph 4:9> Jesus, “the Author of life”, by dying destroyed “him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and <delivered> all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage.”<Heb 2:14-15; cf. Acts 3:15> Henceforth the risen Christ holds “the keys of Death and Hades”, so that “at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth.”<Rev 1:18; Phil 2:10>
    Last edited by Thomas; 07-14-18, 07:31 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • tester
    replied
    Originally posted by Thomas View Post

    The statement is correct because your formulated assertion from the OP is correct? The OP, as stated, is now the standard for Truth?

    I think you misread Mark's statement, and hence misunderstand him (and the Catechism's teaching) - a not uncommon consequence here.
    Mark said
    "Jesus didn't have complete omniscience."

    does that mean
    Jesus did have incomplete omniscience.
    Jesus had partial omniscience.

    Leave a comment:


  • tester
    replied
    Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

    When Peter said to the Jews in Acts 3 15...." you killed the Author of Life"... do you describe the nature of 'Author of Life' as a natural or divine attribute?
    the death was to his human nature
    the person of Jesus Christ has many titles

    Peter tells us:
    "He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit, in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison"
    Was it a person who was alive that preached to the spirits in prison?

    Leave a comment:


  • Thomas
    replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post

    sure it a mystery: there are many mysteries when dealing wit the sublet of God
    .
    That is not mean there are not right and wrong views.

    Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post "Jesus didn't have complete omniscience..."

    is wrong

    The correct statement is Jesus did have complete omniscience..

    because "Everything that is true about the Divine nature is true about the person of Jesus Christ."
    The statement is correct because your formulated assertion from the OP is correct? The OP, as stated, is now the standard for Truth?

    I think you misread Mark's statement, and hence misunderstand him (and the Catechism's teaching) - a not uncommon consequence here.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by utilyan View Post

    Verse where it says God stop loving Jesus.

    Fact your Jesus was hated by God.


    Our Jesus was never hated by God, not even you were ever hated by God.


    Don't you think its an insult to assume God to be evil?
    Sounds like the interpretation of the Westboro Baptists. "God hates ........."

    Leave a comment:


  • utilyan
    replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post

    Isaiah 53:
    Verse where it says God stop loving Jesus.

    Fact your Jesus was hated by God.


    Our Jesus was never hated by God, not even you were ever hated by God.


    Don't you think its an insult to assume God to be evil?

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeT
    replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post
    the context was
    I was refreshing to the name Joseph gave the baby born of Mary and Christ the title of God's eternal anointed one

    Gabriel named Mary's child, not Joseph. As Gabriel is a messenger from God we can assume it was God who originated the name. You might recall, Gabriel said, "Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever." [Luke 31-32]

    JoeT

    Leave a comment:


  • Thomas
    replied
    Originally posted by Iakobos View Post
    The Holy Trinity

    The Three Divine Persons

    In Orthodox terminology the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are called three divine persons. Person is defined here simply as the subject of existence and life—hypostasis in the traditional church language.

    As the being, essence or nature of a reality answers the question “what?”, the person of a reality answers the question “which one?” or “who?” Thus, when we ask “What is God?” we answer that God is the divine, perfect, eternal, absolute . . . and when we ask “Who is God?” we answer that God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    The saints of the Church have explained this tri-unity of God by using such an example from worldly existence. We see three men. “What are they?” we ask. “They are human beings,” we answer. Each is man, possessing the same humanity and the same human nature defined in a certain way: created, temporal, physical, rational, etc. In what they are, the three men are one. But in who they are, they are three, each absolutely unique and distinct from the others. Each man in his own unique way is distinctly a man. One man is not the other, though each man is still human with one and the same human nature and form.

    Turning to God, we may ask in the same way: “What is it?” In reply we say that it is God defined as absolute perfection: “ineffable, inconceivable, invisible, incomprehensible, ever-existing, and eternally the same.” We then ask, “Who is it?”, and we answer that it is the Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In who God is, there are three persons who are each absolutely unique and distinct. Each is not the other, though each is still divine with the same divine nature and form. Therefore, while being one in what they are; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are Three in who they are. And because of what and who they are—namely, uncreated, divine persons—they are undivided and perfectly united in their timeless, spaceless, sizeless, shapeless super-essential existence, as well as in their one divine life, knowledge, love, goodness, power, will, action, etc.

    Thus, according to the Orthodox Tradition, it is the mystery of God that there are Three who are divine; Three who live and act by one and the same divine perfection, yet each according to his own personal distinctness and uniqueness. Thus it is said that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are each divine with the same divinity, yet each in his own divine way. And as the uncreated divinity has three divine subjects, so each divine action has three divine actors; there are three divine aspects to every action of God, yet the action remains one and the same.

    We discover, therefore, one God the Father Almighty with His one unique Son (Image and Word) and His one Holy Spirit. There is one living God with His one perfect divine Life, who is personally the Son, with His one Spirit of Life. There is one True God with His one divine Truth, who is personally the Son, with His one Spirit of Truth. There is one wise and loving God with His one Wisdom and Love, who is personally the Son, with His one Spirit of Wisdom and Love. The examples could go on indefinitely: the one divine Father personifying every aspect of His divinity in His one divine Son, who is personally activated by His one divine Spirit. We will see the living implications of the Trinity as we survey the activity of God in his actions toward man and the world.

    https://oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthod...e-holy-trinity
    Well thank you for adding all that to the thread. (But......I'll stick with the Catholic Faith.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark Rome
    replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post
    in one sense
    the human nature and everything that make Jesus a huamn ceased to live
    in another
    the divine nature and everything that makes Jesus God did not ceased to live

    We're talking about the person, not human nature. Again, Jesus was a person with two natures. A person dies, not a nature. Just like a mother gives birth to a person, not a nature. If you are going to argue philosophy you need to be exact with the terms. You can't just change them at will, it doesn't work that way.

    Additionally, you said "everything that make Jesus a huamn ceased to live". That is also incorrect, because Jesus' human soul did not cease to live.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post
    Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post
    The Divine nature cannot die therefore the person of Jesus Christ cannot die.

    I hope you agree this is false.
    yes: that statement is false ,
    BECAUSE Jesus had human flesh and bone from his human: and that is what died
    When Peter said to the Jews in Acts 3 15...." you killed the Author of Life"... do you describe the nature of 'Author of Life' as a natural or divine attribute?

    Leave a comment:


  • tester
    replied
    Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

    Then this is false: Everything that is true about the Divine nature is true about the person of Jesus Christ.
    in one sense
    the human nature and everything that make Jesus a huamn ceased to live
    in another
    the divine nature and everything that makes Jesus God did not ceased to live

    The three days the body of Jesus was in the tomb:: would you say the person of Jesus Christ has ceased to live?
    i would not : He was active

    Peter tells us:
    "He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit, in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison"
    It was a person that was alive that preached to the spirits in prison:


    Last edited by tester; 07-14-18, 07:01 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark Rome
    replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post
    yes: that statement is false ,
    BECAUSE Jesus had human flesh and bone from his human: and that is what died



    Then this is false: Everything that is true about the Divine nature is true about the person of Jesus Christ.

    Leave a comment:

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