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one person two natures

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  • Geralt_De_Sales
    replied
    Originally posted by utilyan View Post

    My mistake is "mingle" association vs blend. Jesus has 2 natures, Human and God.
    Ah okay, so if I can re-state it to understand, you're saying that the Human and Divine natures are associated in Jesus, in a "completely separate but inextricably linked" kind of way, but that they aren't blended together. Is that a fair way to re-state what you meant?

    Leave a comment:


  • utilyan
    replied
    Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post

    Well, no. The Human and Divine natures of Jesus are not co-mingled. That's why we have the term "hypostatic union".
    My mistake is "mingle" association vs blend. Jesus has 2 natures, Human and God.

    Leave a comment:


  • utilyan
    replied
    2 Corinthians 5

    19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.


    Show us scripture to back up your BACKWARD doctrine. Show us where it says GOD was outside of Jesus and Jesus was RECONCILING GOD to the WORLD.


    Please there is so much claim of being such more biblical and then citing NOTHING to back up these PAGAN doctrines.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geralt_De_Sales
    replied
    Originally posted by utilyan View Post

    "There is no co-mingling of attributes between the natures

    The divine nature has no human attributes
    the human nature has no divine attributes"

    Pushing for Total Depravity. Bypassing the essential ingredient of man is the IMAGE OF GOD.

    Jesus Christ was of full Human nature subject to divine attribute.



    The entire point of the cross. This is why the curtain of the holy of hollies split.

    GOD IS WITH US



    There is no 2nd class virtues that all the sudden are meaningless.

    We are redeemed from the charge that human beings are worthless and totally depraved.

    Our completely natural place is in unity with God.


    John 17

    21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.


    22“The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;23I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. 24“Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

    25“O righteous Father, although the world has not known You, yet I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me; 26and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

    Romans 8

    14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.



    We see Jesus Clearly praying for a complete unity of mankind with God comparable to Him and God.


    The whole point was UNITY.

    Simply ask yourself Does Jesus have a human nature?

    What in the world would be a co mingling of divine and human nature if not JESUS CHRIST?

    His existence is the very proof of it!
    Well, no. The Human and Divine natures of Jesus are not co-mingled. That's why we have the term "hypostatic union".

    Leave a comment:


  • utilyan
    replied
    Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post

    Which ones?

    And to other Catholics, can you please explain to me if I'm on the wrong track here as well? (No offense, tester. I mean to ask that to know their position too---I actually do appreciate you giving that demonstration. )
    "There is no co-mingling of attributes between the natures

    The divine nature has no human attributes
    the human nature has no divine attributes"

    Pushing for Total Depravity. Bypassing the essential ingredient of man is the IMAGE OF GOD.

    Jesus Christ was of full Human nature subject to divine attribute.



    The entire point of the cross. This is why the curtain of the holy of hollies split.

    GOD IS WITH US



    There is no 2nd class virtues that all the sudden are meaningless.

    We are redeemed from the charge that human beings are worthless and totally depraved.

    Our completely natural place is in unity with God.


    John 17

    21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.


    22“The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;23I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. 24“Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

    25“O righteous Father, although the world has not known You, yet I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me; 26and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

    Romans 8

    14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.



    We see Jesus Clearly praying for a complete unity of mankind with God comparable to Him and God.


    The whole point was UNITY.

    Simply ask yourself Does Jesus have a human nature?

    What in the world would be a co mingling of divine and human nature if not JESUS CHRIST?

    His existence is the very proof of it!

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Howie View Post
    Yeah. It's getting easier for me to ignore her, and the rest of them.
    I am asking legitimate questions that you don't want to and most likely can't answer. Don't put it on me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post

    John 12:41
    Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him
    —————

    that was easy
    So are you supporting Howie in saying that these many things that can even be contradictory statements in the Scriptures, are nevertheless easy to understand without the assistance of theology and all that it involves? You can understand the depth and breadth of the doctrine of the Trinity simply by reading the Scriptures cold?

    This is a common claim of nonCC's that no honest seeker would ever buy. This claim that when you are 'the elect' or the 'born again'... you have superior knowledge and can know the depth and breadth of the mysteries in Scripture without a teacher or leader and a sound tradition of theological method.

    I know that isn't true and I know that the lack of good fruits that normally go hand in hand with conversion cannot be explained away by 'the saved' to anyone who has a bible of their own.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geralt_De_Sales
    replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post
    And yet
    Other Catholics say that is in error
    Which ones?

    And to other Catholics, can you please explain to me if I'm on the wrong track here as well? (No offense, tester. I mean to ask that to know their position too---I actually do appreciate you giving that demonstration. )

    Leave a comment:


  • tester
    replied
    Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post

    Oh, okay! Now I see what you mean. Yes, I agree with this, and yes, this is a good explanation. Thank you!
    And yet
    Other Catholics say that is in error

    Leave a comment:


  • Geralt_De_Sales
    replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post

    perhaps an illustration would help:

    The"flow" of the communication of properties and attribute is "One Way Only"
    All attributes from either nature can be ascribed to The ONE Person

    Divine nature ---->One Person<----Human Nature
    Is true
    ---------------
    however there is absolutely no communication of attributes between the natures: either directly (nature to nature ) or indirectly (nature to Person to nature)

    Divine nature ----->Human Nature
    Human nature ---->Divine Nature
    Is false
    and
    Divine nature---->One Person--->Human Nature
    Human nature---->One Person--->Divine Nature
    Is False

    IOW: the point is that
    it is an error to ascribe Divine attributes to the human nature
    it is an error to ascribe human attributes to the Divine nature

    Two natures eternally together in The One Person
    Two natures eternally distinct in The One Person

    There is no co-mingling of attributes between the natures

    The divine nature has no human attributes
    the human nature has no divine attributes
    Oh, okay! Now I see what you mean. Yes, I agree with this, and yes, this is a good explanation. Thank you!

    Leave a comment:


  • Geralt_De_Sales
    replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post

    The Catholic encyclopedia
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04169a.htm

    "There is no communicatio idiomatum between the two natures of Christ, or between the Word and the human nature as such or its parts."
    The fundamental error of the Ubiquitists consists in predicating of the human nature or of humanity the properties of the Divine nature. "
    Okay, I'm not sure what you mean. Can you please elaborate? If I'm wrong in my thinking, it's a simple matter of accepting the Church's teachings.

    Leave a comment:


  • utilyan
    replied
    Originally posted by Howie View Post
    You have profound gift for stating the obvious.
    God doesn't torture Jesus for the sins you commit. God is not evil.



    The Father doesn't take the prodigal son back and say......Well hold on someone is going to have to pay up for the squandered inheritance this kid took. Let me go beat my good son or slave for what he did.


    Your idea of God has ZERO FORGIVENESS for anything. It all must be PAID one way or another.



    God is for Restorative justice not sadistic retribution.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howie
    replied
    Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

    Please refer to post #337. You need to pay more attention.
    Actually I can't pay anymore attention than I already do, Mark; however, I could pay better attention; we both could.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howie
    replied
    Originally posted by utilyan View Post

    Our God doesn't get satisfaction from sadistic abuse of others.


    Only evil people are sadists.
    You have profound gift for stating the obvious.

    Leave a comment:


  • utilyan
    replied
    Originally posted by Howie View Post
    I hope you do that soon.
    Our God doesn't get satisfaction from sadistic abuse of others.


    Only evil people are sadists.

    Leave a comment:

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